Possible Terrorist Attack in London

[jazzman]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

It's sad when innocent people are killed for political reasons. What control do I have over my government? Am I responsible for what my leaders do after I vote them in? Why can't people just live? This whole world is complete bullshitt!!!

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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Past tense. I'm more worried about what's happening right now than hundreds of years ago. YAO's Billy Graham and schoolkids blowing up a Saudi bus is a pretty good comparison.

Pete

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That's the point dude - there are many people that view our presence in Iraq as just that. That would be present tense.

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This is a big part of the problem IMHO: we're always expected to view things from the perspective of everyone else on the planet and understand how they feel and think but no one is ever required to consider western sensibilities or to understand how we perceive issues. or, alternatively, if one does by chance consider a western perspective it is automatically dismissed as invalid, uninformed, or otherwise flawed because it does not agree with the superior non-western perspective. Neat circle that.

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That's right. It's a circle. We don't respect their beliefs/concerns/values/etc. and they don't respect ours. So then both sides should just blow shit up and kill people. That should help. And if it doesn't help at least both sides can say they are doing what they can and someday "you'll see".

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Where have I suggested that "...both sides should just blow shit up and kill people" Tim? My point here is merely that western society is always called upon to be tolerant and understanding of the rest of the world while the rest of the world is uniformly excused for the hatred and venom directed towards western society that emanates forth from much of it. No good can come of this double standard, *both* sides must be understanding and tolerant or risk this problem escalating beyond all hope of control.

Re: the rest of this thread - International terrorism is almost exclusively a phenomenon rooted in the Muslim world and engaged in by self-professed adherents to Islam. That's not racist; it's merely an objective observation of the current state of affairs in the world and I make the observation with no hatred or malice towards any group of people but merely because it is the single common thread that runs through virtually all international terrorism. Yet the absolute tolerance required of western societies guarantees that the mere identification of that common thread (much less any discussion of it) will be met with a hail of cries of, “Racism! Bigot!” and the like.

In western societies, preventing open an honest discussion through social mores is like keeping the lid firmly clamped down on a pressure cooker while continually upping the temperature: eventually something’s going to give and when it does the result is not going to be pretty. What you’re seeing on the part of many who lash out in anger is the beginning of this ugly outcome. In the societies from whence emanates international terrorism the absolution of all blame has the same effect as well-meaning family members who facilitate an addict’s habit rather than forcing the addict to confront her own problem; that is to say that by internalizing blame for problems created by others while absolving others of blame for their own actions we facilitate the continued export of the same problems over, and over, and over again ad infinitum. The truth is that the west cannot stop the export of international terrorism from the Muslim world, only the alleged overwhelming majority of Muslims who abhor those actions can do so because to stop it they must look inward, identify what in their societies breeds these animals, and change … no one can do that for them and no one can force that outcome upon them. We can knock down systems that appear to be too dangerous to be left alone but we can never guarantee a better outcome with what follows.

The whole “blame Bush”, “blame America”, “blame anyone but the groups that do the deeds” thing is getting old. Rather than blaming Bush or the longstanding American relationship with the Saudis we might as well, if one believes the organic theory of the origin of oil, blame dinosaurs for having the audacity to die in large numbers in areas that would come to be inhabited by societies that choose to externalize their problems by exporting them in what eventually takes the form of international terrorism. Or perhaps we should blame the Bolsheviks for overthrowing the Provisional Government of Russia in 1917 and thereby creating the political system that eventually forced the US into bed with the Saudis. No? Then perhaps we should blame Hitler for kicking off WWII and leaving Europe in such a weakened state that Russia was able to incorporate half of it into the Soviet Union, a political union that … you guessed it … forced the west into bed with the Saudis to guarantee energy supplies through the Cold War. Or perhaps we should blame Marx and Engels for putting pen to paper in the first place because surely they are a direct link in this causal chain that stretches forth from long-dead dinosaurs to modern day terrorism.

That’s really the issue: modern events are merely a new link in a causal chain that stretches back literally millions of years and everyone on every side of the issues begins their analysis at a different point along that chain and weights each link/event very differently. I’ll suggest that it is therefore not productive to delve into the past and attempt to redress historical grievances or assign blame for “root causes”. What is productive is to identify what traits / beliefs today’s international terrorists share and find a way to diminish the capacities of those beliefs and the societies that hold them to produce an ever-larger number of terrorists or at least to force said societies to face the problem internally rather than merely exporting it to the rest of the world.

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

[img]/images/graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]

[Evol]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

So basically,don't shit where you sleep? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Oh god, I think you just came up with the most inventive redneck insult. What next "If you don't like it, go back to..."?

Please admins please do lock this thread already.

[Inearthed]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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- Did you ever stop and think that there might be some Muslim people, Arab people, or people of Arab descent on the forum? Obviously not.

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Certainly,some of them have spoken their mind,which is what sparked me to do the same.Do their insensitive statements deserve to go unanswered?

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The negative comments started from page one, mainly originating from the people who were tired of liberal thinking. Page two has people talking about "raghead" and other stuff like that. If I started a thread and said "all gays need to be shot" or "christians need to be killed" and the person reading the thread happens to be gay or a christian is surely going to get pissed and respond negatively. There is a good 5 pages of hate on here; hate breeds hate.

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Re-read your bible, think about how Jesus would react to this and then come back in here and post your thoughts. I'm amazed that some people on here consider themselves christians.

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In a previous post I stated I am NOT a Christian.
Why don't you read the Quran and tell me what Allah would do?? Chop my head off for dissing his religion? Boy,that's compassionate....

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That comment wasn't directed towards you, otherwise I would've quoted something you said when I made that above post. There are a lot of supposed christians on this board that are choosing to lash out against other people. I'm not a christian either, nor am I a muslim. I don't know anything about the muslim faith, other than my experience with muslim people who have pretty much been ridiculed and hated since some crazy fuckers started flying planes into buildings. The Muslims that I know are kind and considerate people that are probably the most tolerant and patient that I've ever met. I take it you've not been standing next to someone when a pickup truck with two men sitting inside of it yelling "Go back to Iraq you fucking towelhead" because the kid's skin happens to be a dark brown color instead of white.

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This thread is getting scary. I honestly think that there are lot of people here who feel that "the only good muslim is a dead muslim".

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Alot of people in this country are starting to feel this way,and unless the Muslims do something to stop their own people from murdering people in the name of their God more will follow,history has shown it time after time.

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The Muslims that I know are know are doing much of what you listed below (voting, protesting, etc). Extremists are extremists. They'll always be there. Just like there are people out there that are like this www.godhatesfags.com

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I haven't done anything to help "fight terrorism"? And unless you're in the military, or a part of the FBI, police, etc then I think that you've probably not done very much either.

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There is more to fighting a war than pulling the trigger,I am involved in politics ,helping to organize protests against local anti-Americans(lots here in Cali),I vote for candidates that support the effort to get rid of this scum,I organize and send the soldiers items they need,which is much appreciated as they send me and our group many letters of thanks. I work and pay taxes which go to the effort as well.If I were young enough to take one of their places,I would.Would you do the same?

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I work and pay taxes too. I choose not to serve because it doesn't agree with my morals. Having done interviews with veterans of wars and other conflicts (some in my own family) I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to serve in the military. It is a long, long story that I really don't want to get into simply because it is personal and I really don't want to talk about that stuff on the internet with people that I don't really know.

[Deneb]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London



I don't care if you like the president, or you don't. I don't care what party you are, or what part you're not.

Let's look at some facts,

We're overseas, pissing off these people even more everyday...for a war over what? Oil? A father's pride? Terrorism? WOMD (That were proven by our own people to... not exist?) or a combination of it all? Why in Iraq, if Osama/Alqueda are in Afghanistan?

Argue it all you want, but you're not going to get anywhere with it.

Now, It varies from who you speak to on Pearl Harbor, but around 2300-2400 soldiers were killed. (www.google.com search Pearl Harbor Death toll) Troops, sign up, knowing they may die. They sign up, to help their country. I'm not saying anyone deserved to die, but the risks were there. It's the ultimate risk, your life for your country.

9/11/01, I've looked, and cannot tell you a for certain number. They say it's guaranteed around 1600, but the claims are much higher, like 2700ish. These people WERE NOT soldiers. They didn't sign up to be stock brokers, and insurance agents, with the possible chance of being blown the fuck apart.

Look at the difference,

Because of Pearl Harbor...we dropped NUKES on major Japanese cities.

Because of 9/11- 1700+ soldiers, sons, fathers, uncles, brothers, mothers, daughters, sisters, et cetera, have been taken away from this Earth.

1700+ soldiers. AT LEAST 1700 U.S. citizens dead. A destroyed economy.

And what are we doing? We're tip toe'ing through the tulips with these assholes! (Boondock, or is it, boonedock? Saints reference).

We're watching out for their religious monuments, and chapels. We're playing fair, when all bets are off for them!

We need to get some of the biggest balls, and go and just lay waste to them, as they did us.

I know it's difficult, the war we fight is different. We don't know who is against us, or for us, until their innards have blown through us. When you think about it, did we make sure we didn't kill, women, children, and civilians when we dropped the bombs on Japan? Nope. Guess what? They learned a fucking lesson. Don't fuck with the U.S.



I'm not saying shit about anyone in office, anyone in their office. I'm not saying I don't support the soldiers. Some of you may not understand this, but I support EVERY move they make, as I understand, they are fighting and dying for freedoms I've got here, and that we all take for granted. I can support the soldiers, and not support the war.

In fact, I'm for the war, but we should be conducting business, MUCH differently. I know, we've got to play by some "rules" but hey, in my opinion, when you kill all of these innocent people, and then continue to kill people all around, you don't get fair treatment, you just get killed.


We do NOT need to be having trials, or treating any of these terrorists fairly. We do NOT need to be humane to them. We do NOT need to follow their religous guidelines when they are in our prisons.

The war should be terror, and against terrorists. War criminals shouldn't get a trial, they should get a bullet in the brain.

[Inearthed]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

All right.. After all of this in an effort to end this thread on a better / more civilized note.

I think we can all agree that what happened in London was fucked up and wrong and that the people that performed such actions, and the people that would perform acts like this, regardless of ethnicity, religion, or creed need to be dealt with one way or another. The solution to the problem is a difficult one and I personally think that it won't be easy to come by, but if we unite together and all mutually say that we won't deal with this shit then we can start to work towards a solution.

I aplogize to those of you that were offended by my rather blunt and in some cases uncalled for comments, but some of the things that I did see being posted really urked me and I needed to respond as I saw fit. Everyone on here is cool in my book... Well, everyone except HippieTim, because, well, he's a hippy (just kidding bro!!)

When shit like this comes up, just remember what Ozzy said; " maybe it's not too late / to learn how to love / and forget how to hate"

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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I don't care if you like the president, or you don't. I don't care what party you are, or what part you're not.

Let's look at some facts,

We're overseas, pissing off these people even more everyday...for a war over what? Oil? A father's pride? Terrorism? WOMD (That were proven by our own people to... not exist?) or a combination of it all? Why in Iraq, if Osama/Alqueda are in Afghanistan?

Argue it all you want, but you're not going to get anywhere with it.

Now, It varies from who you speak to on Pearl Harbor, but around 2300-2400 soldiers were killed. (www.google.com search Pearl Harbor Death toll) Troops, sign up, knowing they may die. They sign up, to help their country. I'm not saying anyone deserved to die, but the risks were there. It's the ultimate risk, your life for your country.

9/11/01, I've looked, and cannot tell you a for certain number. They say it's guaranteed around 1600, but the claims are much higher, like 2700ish. These people WERE NOT soldiers. They didn't sign up to be stock brokers, and insurance agents, with the possible chance of being blown the fuck apart.

Look at the difference,

Because of Pearl Harbor...we dropped NUKES on major Japanese cities.

Because of 9/11- 1700+ soldiers, sons, fathers, uncles, brothers, mothers, daughters, sisters, et cetera, have been taken away from this Earth.

1700+ soldiers. AT LEAST 1700 U.S. citizens dead. A destroyed economy.

And what are we doing? We're tip toe'ing through the tulips with these assholes! (Boondock, or is it, boonedock? Saints reference).

We're watching out for their religious monuments, and chapels. We're playing fair, when all bets are off for them!

We need to get some of the biggest balls, and go and just lay waste to them, as they did us.

I know it's difficult, the war we fight is different. We don't know who is against us, or for us, until their innards have blown through us. When you think about it, did we make sure we didn't kill, women, children, and civilians when we dropped the bombs on Japan? Nope. Guess what? They learned a fucking lesson. Don't fuck with the U.S.



I'm not saying shit about anyone in office, anyone in their office. I'm not saying I don't support the soldiers. Some of you may not understand this, but I support EVERY move they make, as I understand, they are fighting and dying for freedoms I've got here, and that we all take for granted. I can support the soldiers, and not support the war.

In fact, I'm for the war, but we should be conducting business, MUCH differently. I know, we've got to play by some "rules" but hey, in my opinion, when you kill all of these innocent people, and then continue to kill people all around, you don't get fair treatment, you just get killed.


We do NOT need to be having trials, or treating any of these terrorists fairly. We do NOT need to be humane to them. We do NOT need to follow their religous guidelines when they are in our prisons.

The war should be terror, and against terrorists. War criminals shouldn't get a trial, they should get a bullet in the brain.

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You are an asshole.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

If you can't state that in a more logical and civil fashion, then obviously you are the A-Hole.

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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If you can't state that in a more logical and civil fashion, then obviously you are the A-Hole.

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When responding to something as illogical and uncivil like that, I obviously don't feel the need to be civil.

[Deneb]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

How is that?

Why? I support my country, I support my troops, and I support our freedom.

It was to my understanding, on this board, we didn't call people names, or make direct attacks at anyone.

All I did was voice my opinion...Kill those bastards, like they killed our people. Don't ask questions about "Why were you going to blow up the car bomb on US soil", they wanted to kill us, so kill them.

I don't know why you're name calling me. If I die as a result of a car crash, will you feel sorry? Why not a terrorist attack? Did I say shit about people who are risking their lives daily during this? No, no I did not.

You say "Ok, that's it. You are an asshole." What do you mean "that's it". You say it like I did something else?

Am I not entitled to the same freedom, that you are, that lets you call me an asshole? The same freedom that people die for.

I fly the US flag. I support my country. Call me an asshole, but I'm an American asshole, with AMERICAN blood in me, that people fight to protect. Why the hell shouldn't I want this war over sooner for their sake?

[Deneb]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

I see you edited your post.

The full post was,

"Ok, that's it. You are an asshole. If you die tomorrow as a result of a terrorist attack, I will not care. NOT one bit."
I may have missed a word, but you get the idea.

If you have the balls to type out bullshit like that, you should have at least let it stand.

[veliyasin]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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It was to my understanding, on this board, we didn't call people names, or make direct attacks at anyone.

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Oh don't fucking cry now. You are talking about killing everyone that lives in Iraq and yes that is a direct attack at me as I am a Muslim. Now stop being a bitch and spitting rhetoric. Be a MAN.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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If you can't state that in a more logical and civil fashion, then obviously you are the A-Hole.

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When responding to something as illogical and uncivil like that, I obviously don't feel the need to be civil.

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Uncivility (is that a word?) begats uncivility with you?

Hmmm... Yet you have a problem when violence begats violence?

Hehe.. Typical.