Possible Terrorist Attack in London

[~K~]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Wow, surprised this thread isn't locked or deleted yet with all the bullshit that's going on. [img]/images/graemlins/sleep.gif[/img]

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Why lock the thread? I don't feel anyone is really crossing any lines, no more than we've done in other threads, and let happen.

Why censor everything, and sugar coat it?



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Simply because instead of discussing it you guys take to calling each other assholes and taking personal shots at each other beliefs. Your belief system is only supported by where in the world you happen to call home and then it becomes diluted from there.

Enough of the name calling, I'm trying to give you guys as much room as possible but it's apparent that your personal views are more important to you than the racial/religious diversity of this board.

[Endrik]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

Pott whatabout those Frencemen who protest all the time against the US and burn american flags? (there are a lot of them) And whatabout Jacques Dip-shit Chiraq? He is BY FAR the most idiotic president IMO.

I'm not saying that all frech are assholes, not at all but I live in Europe too and I see all the time how people protest against the USA. Most of the people don't like USA here, that is a fact, you should know that man. Most of them don't really know why they are protesting, they just want to riot. A lot of them are low-life scum.

I personally support US because unlike anyother countrys, they actually got some balls to do something and not complain all the time (like Chiraq)
Pott remember, I don't talk shit about France but about Europe in general.

If you ask any protester why he hates US, then he/she probably say that US wants all the oil and they have no right to attack "innocent" people in Iraque, they don't have any buisness in other peoples lives blah blah blah. What if the US wouldn't helped the others in WWII?? It wasn't their buisness.

I'm always against the war, ALWAYS. But people should think that MAYBE 10 years later people in Iraque have a better life, a democracy or something. I wouldn't like to live in a country where one man has a controll of everything.

And it is the Terrorists fault that the USA attacked Iraq. Those terrorist who caused the 911 were from Iraq, they fucked their own people. THEY KNEW that the US would punich everyone who attacks their country. If somone kills a person who was close to you, wouldn't you do something about it?

[agresivo]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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whatabout those Frencemen who protest all the time against the US and burn american flags? (there are a lot of them)

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No, they are a minority. I don't want Americans to believe that all Europe is against them. That's false. Maybe a lot of people are sick of George Bush Junior, but that doesn't mean they're against the US.

I hate Spain's current president, but that doesn't imply I'm against my country.

[pott]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Pott whatabout those Frencemen who protest all the time against the US and burn american flags? (there are a lot of them) And whatabout Jacques Dip-shit Chiraq? He is BY FAR the most idiotic president IMO.

I'm not saying that all frech are assholes, not at all but I live in Europe too and I see all the time how people protest against the USA. Most of the people don't like USA here, that is a fact, you should know that man. Most of them don't really know why they are protesting, they just want to riot. A lot of them are low-life scum.

I personally support US because unlike anyother countrys, they actually got some balls to do something and not complain all the time (like Chiraq)
Pott remember, I don't talk shit about France but about Europe in general.

If you ask any protester why he hates US, then he/she probably say that US wants all the oil and they have no right to attack "innocent" people in Iraque, they don't have any buisness in other peoples lives blah blah blah. What if the US wouldn't helped the others in WWII?? It wasn't their buisness.

I'm always against the war, ALWAYS. But people should think that MAYBE 10 years later people in Iraque have a better life, a democracy or something. I wouldn't like to live in a country where one man has a controll of everything.

And it is the Terrorists fault that the USA attacked Iraq. Those terrorist who caused the 911 were from Iraq, they fucked their own people. THEY KNEW that the US would punich everyone who attacks their country. If somone kills a person who was close to you, wouldn't you do something about it?

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And how about those Americans who dumped wine into the streets because it was French, or Bush bashing Kerry because he SPOKE French? If you want to say we're worse, at least make sure you're better first, that's all I'm asking. There are assholes everywhere, and some of them clearly showed it in this thread. If people were complaining about these Frenchmen, then shouldn't they just let it go instead of doing worse? By doing the same they just prove themselves just as stupid.
Those terrorists were from Saudi Arabia if I recall properly. So is Ben Laden. He was in Afghanistan and that's why countries went there, including France: to take him out.
I hate those who hate the US. I am for the war in Iraq, just not THAT war. I am for taking Saddam out because he was a dictator, not because supposedly he could attack a country. The very reasons given for the war have been proven wrong, and that's what I don't agree with. I certainly wish a country had finally had the balls to say 'enough with this bastard' and had gone to take him out. Instead the UN and other countries just let him go.
I am not DEFENDING France. I'm not saying they were more right than the US in anything. I just like people who are going to comment to know what they're talking about and make sure they actually CAN comment. If the US really was going to Iraq to take Saddam out, they wouldn't have needed to false documents.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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That was the South not too long ago. And racist whites were those people. They used to take their kids to lynchings where they were served hot dogs and lemonade. And make postcards of the "show".

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Careful George you're in danger of falling prey to that collective loathing of western society the political left would like us all to engage in. Lest we appeal strictly to emotion let's inject a bit of objectivity here. IIRC between the end of the US Civil War and the mid-1920s when the practice largely died out (not coincidentally along with most of the Civil War generation) there were something on the order of 3500 lynchings in the United States (around 54/year). During some years, and in some locales, the number of whites lynched exceeded the number of blacks lynched so, while making the practice no less abhorrent, it’s important to recognize that lynching was not strictly racially motivated in every single case, it also has roots in the then-common practice of vigilante “justice” that was part and parcel of American life until the 20th century.

No doubt the images of smiling children at lynchings a century ago in America are chilling. No less so were the images of Palestinian women dancing in the streets and handing out candy to children on 9/11/01 to celebrate the deaths of approximately 2750 New Yorkers at the hands of their fellow Muslims. Smiling in a photograph following one horrific death is sickening, celebrating thousands of such deaths is even moreso. America is 80 years removed from the history you cite yet such barbaric expressions of hatred are, apparently, still common elsewhere. If you must loathe something, loathe that rather than your own nation.

[Endrik]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

cool Pott, I respect your opinion.
Personally I just hate all those protesters BIG TIME, europians who burn american flags or americans who dump french wine into the streets or whatever.

[agresivo]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Those terrorist who caused the 911 were from Iraq

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No, they weren't. I thought most of them were from Saudi Arabia.

By the way, I think Estonia has a different view of the USA than, say France or Spain.

Eastern Europe may still hold some hate towards the USA, perhaps due to the Cold War, but in the West we have a very different vision.

I suppose the same people that protest all the time and burn American flags in Estonia also wanted a comunist world ruled by the Soviet Union 20 years ago. Those are the lowlifes. Don't mix those people with the rest of Europe, please.

Endrik, please note that I'm not aiming these opinions to you or Estonia as a whole, I'm just referring to the protesting people you're talking about. I can assure you that Spain is different.

In Spain, we were against the war on Iraq because we have turned into a more peaceful nation since our Civil War in 1939. We just don't want more conflicts. There were demonstrations against the war, but not against America.

I've been to Paris a couple of times and after seeing the shops and restaurants there, I think the American way of life is a cool and popular thing in France. I don't consider them antiAmericans!

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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same sort of stuff is in the Bible all over the place. So then the difference is that the Muslims read the Quran but Christians don't read the Bible?

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I think the difference that matters most is that Christians aren't out there killing people in the name of God or asking for holy wars against all muslims.

Pete

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Pete that is EXACTLY how a significant portion of the Muslim community feels about the war in Iraq.

Look at history Pete, Christians have slaughtered countless people in the name of god.

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Past tense. I'm more worried about what's happening right now than hundreds of years ago. YAO's Billy Graham and schoolkids blowing up a Saudi bus is a pretty good comparison.

Pete

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That's the point dude - there are many people that view our presence in Iraq as just that. That would be present tense.

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This is a big part of the problem IMHO: we're always expected to view things from the perspective of everyone else on the planet and understand how they feel and think but no one is ever required to consider western sensibilities or to understand how we perceive issues. or, alternatively, if one does by chance consider a western perspective it is automatically dismissed as invalid, uninformed, or otherwise flawed because it does not agree with the superior non-western perspective. Neat circle that.

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That's right. It's a circle. We don't respect their beliefs/concerns/values/etc. and they don't respect ours. So then both sides should just blow shit up and kill people. That should help. And if it doesn't help at least both sides can say they are doing what they can and someday "you'll see".

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Where have I suggested that "...both sides should just blow shit up and kill people" Tim? My point here is merely that western society is always called upon to be tolerant and understanding of the rest of the world while the rest of the world is uniformly excused for the hatred and venom directed towards western society that emanates forth from much of it. No good can come of this double standard, *both* sides must be understanding and tolerant or risk this problem escalating beyond all hope of control.

Re: the rest of this thread - International terrorism is almost exclusively a phenomenon rooted in the Muslim world and engaged in by self-professed adherents to Islam. That's not racist; it's merely an objective observation of the current state of affairs in the world and I make the observation with no hatred or malice towards any group of people but merely because it is the single common thread that runs through virtually all international terrorism. Yet the absolute tolerance required of western societies guarantees that the mere identification of that common thread (much less any discussion of it) will be met with a hail of cries of, “Racism! Bigot!” and the like.

In western societies, preventing open an honest discussion through social mores is like keeping the lid firmly clamped down on a pressure cooker while continually upping the temperature: eventually something’s going to give and when it does the result is not going to be pretty. What you’re seeing on the part of many who lash out in anger is the beginning of this ugly outcome. In the societies from whence emanates international terrorism the absolution of all blame has the same effect as well-meaning family members who facilitate an addict’s habit rather than forcing the addict to confront her own problem; that is to say that by internalizing blame for problems created by others while absolving others of blame for their own actions we facilitate the continued export of the same problems over, and over, and over again ad infinitum. The truth is that the west cannot stop the export of international terrorism from the Muslim world, only the alleged overwhelming majority of Muslims who abhor those actions can do so because to stop it they must look inward, identify what in their societies breeds these animals, and change … no one can do that for them and no one can force that outcome upon them. We can knock down systems that appear to be too dangerous to be left alone but we can never guarantee a better outcome with what follows.

The whole “blame Bush”, “blame America”, “blame anyone but the groups that do the deeds” thing is getting old. Rather than blaming Bush or the longstanding American relationship with the Saudis we might as well, if one believes the organic theory of the origin of oil, blame dinosaurs for having the audacity to die in large numbers in areas that would come to be inhabited by societies that choose to externalize their problems by exporting them in what eventually takes the form of international terrorism. Or perhaps we should blame the Bolsheviks for overthrowing the Provisional Government of Russia in 1917 and thereby creating the political system that eventually forced the US into bed with the Saudis. No? Then perhaps we should blame Hitler for kicking off WWII and leaving Europe in such a weakened state that Russia was able to incorporate half of it into the Soviet Union, a political union that … you guessed it … forced the west into bed with the Saudis to guarantee energy supplies through the Cold War. Or perhaps we should blame Marx and Engels for putting pen to paper in the first place because surely they are a direct link in this causal chain that stretches forth from long-dead dinosaurs to modern day terrorism.

That’s really the issue: modern events are merely a new link in a causal chain that stretches back literally millions of years and everyone on every side of the issues begins their analysis at a different point along that chain and weights each link/event very differently. I’ll suggest that it is therefore not productive to delve into the past and attempt to redress historical grievances or assign blame for “root causes”. What is productive is to identify what traits / beliefs today’s international terrorists share and find a way to diminish the capacities of those beliefs and the societies that hold them to produce an ever-larger number of terrorists or at least to force said societies to face the problem internally rather than merely exporting it to the rest of the world.

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Brad, I didn't mean to imply you said we should just "blow shit up". I was going to add a disclaimer to that effect when I posted but I thought you'd figure it out. Guess not [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

As for the rest of your post, well, it is entertaining.

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Re-read your bible, think about how Jesus would react to this and then come back in here and post your thoughts. I'm amazed that some people on here consider themselves christians.

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In a previous post I stated I am NOT a Christian.
Why don't you read the Quran and tell me what Allah would do?? Chop my head off for dissing his religion? Boy,that's compassionate....

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Actually, that is what god would have you do in the bible. When god says he's gonna smite your ass he/she/it is not talking about inviting you to a party to talk about puppy love - rather, he/she/it will be sending a big can of whoopass your way.

[Endrik]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

agresivo,
ok they all weren't from Iraq, but you get my point, they were islamists and now US is against islam terrorists.......

About cold war, we were occupied by Soviet Union, we were on the US side, they supported us.
Officially Estonia is on the USA side in this war, our troops are in the Iraq too.

A lot of the protesters here are Russians who can't even speaks our language and they are communinsts. You are right about that. But also a lot of our normal people speak shit about US all the time.
I've been all over the Europe and seen how a lot of people hate US. It isn't only here in my country. But yes that anti-USA thing is way bigger in Eastern Europe.

But in the last year I saw on the TV all the time how people rioted in the WESTERN Europe, specially in Fance. That was sick, I don't like that. But I generally don't hate the European people if you taught I do, I just think that kissing Chiraq's ass isn't cool.

And I know about the Spain thing. I've read Hemingway's stuff about your civil war etc. I give Spain the props because you haven't been involved with any war since that.
I do belive that things are different in your contry but at the other hand we have one of the highest precentice of assholes in my country, that's for sure.

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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If you can't state that in a more logical and civil fashion, then obviously you are the A-Hole.

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Umm...pot/kettle?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

I haven't called anyone any names (other than that comment in reference to the original statement), I haven't been un-civil, although my being illogical is a strong possibility. I can't really see why you made that post to me.

Maybe I missed something I said? But, I would truly I would think you would be easily able to find a better post somewhere in this mess to comment on... Hehe...

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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Despite some of the short-fuse opinions here Veli I think most everyone knows that most Muslims aren't bringing terrorism to the west, but some self-professed adherents to Islam are. That's not an issue that no one can address so long as the societies that breed those folks are given a pass on their responsibility for doing so.

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Brad, I think YOU can sort this out and be more directed in your thoughts. The general mentality wherever I turn (including this board) is that we should just start killing Arabs and/or Muslims. I think you are mistaken thinking that "...most everyone knows that most Muslims aren't bringing terrorism to the west, but some self-professed adherents to Islam are...".

There is a mob mentality all around us.

Believe me, I understand why people feel that way. If I'm being honest I'd have to admit that when I saw a group of Arab men at an airport get on my plane (and then spread out on the plane) I did feel pretty apprehensive.

[hippietim]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

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I haven't called anyone any names (other than that comment in reference to the original statement), I haven't been un-civil, although my being illogical is a strong possibility. I can't really see why you made that post to me.

Maybe I missed something I said? But, I would truly I would think you would be easily able to find a better post somewhere in this mess to comment on... Hehe...

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[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I just thought it was funny that you were calling someone an asshole for calling someone else an asshole. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Possible Terrorist Attack in London

You should EXPECT that from me by now!!! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]