Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

[VitaminG]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

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Ya know... Jeri and I were just talking about this not too long ago (she's a real trip on the phone, btw! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )
We were talking about how our metal tastes evolved and how if you're not used to harsher vocals or thrashier styles you kinda have to get used to it at first. If that makes any sense.
Much like diving into an icy river. Yeooowww! [img]/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img]

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I'll say! You should feel these nipples! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Inearthed]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

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BTW...I love Hammerfal but can't stand Jocaim Cans..why...because I think if you're a "power metal" singer...that should require to have some "power" in your voice...he has none...he makes Don Dokken sound like Chuck Billy! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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I honestly can't stand his voice either. There really no umph behind it. His singing reminds me of someone like playing the vocal lines with a synth using a string patch, just hitting notes but with absolutely nothing added other than pronunciation. Hammerfall does have some really good songs though. Dreamland is my favorite, I think. I'm looking forward to seeing them this summer when they go on tour with Edguy.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

I respect the musicianship of the bands with CM vox, but I just don't enjoy hearing it, and there seem to be lots of cool guitarists in bands that do have "singing" singers. I can't afford to buy new stuff most of the time anyway so if I do I prefer clean vox.

Bill, your Pantera example is good. For a long time I didn't like where Phil went after CFH where he stopped singing most of the time. I'd get the CDs but listen once, say "ehh..." and put 'em away. Stuff like Vulgar and Trendkill sounds better now than it used to, so who knows?

But when you trashed hair metal I thought, you have to watch THAT prejudice. RATT and Dokken are hair metal with no doubt, but Warren and George are worthy players. Keep to the "good and bad" on a case-by-case basis and you can't go wrong!

[khabibissell]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

+1 for The Scream. That is a great CD. Not only is the guitar playing top notch and versatile, but the songs are great. Corabi's voice fits the music perfectly. That stuff is the kind of music I'd like to write.

I didn't like the growling vocals either, but I tune it out for the most part. I recently picked up the Shadows Fall CD and it's really growing on me. I love the tight rhythm work, and the soloing is pretty good too.

I should probably check out some Nevermore. You guys keep bringing it up, it must be good.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

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Here's a quote from the lead vocalist of a local band called "Vulgarizer"

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As much as square dancing would be inappropriate to Death Metal, so would certain vocal stylings. The growling (or insert-adjective-here) vocals are something that, I think, matches the quality of the music. The fact that they are indiscernible is of no consequence. Do you hold the same objection of "can't understand what they say" to Opera? To Tibetan throat singing? To any music sung in a foreign tongue? [...] Fact is, vocals are an instrument as much as any other part of a musical [composition].

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(slightly changed for clarity)



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I can't stand opera singers either but the analogy isn't a good one. The difference is the opera singers are hitting notes where the CM'er isn't. I'd take a CM over an opera any day of the week tho [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LouSiffer]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

I think vocals are just thrown in to give you something to hear between guitar solos.-Lou

[horns666]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

"I think vocals are just thrown in to give you something to hear between guitar solos.-Lou "


[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]...Lou my man that is exactly how I feel about it...unless the vocals are outstanding like Jorn Lande or Russel Allen..or Mats Levin..

I would take Opera over CM...well it's my culture..I love Pavoratti..that fat fuck can sing!

I love sad operas..I went to see a few...I think I was crying.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]....like a chick! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Operas are just so fucking classy...you dress up to the gills...everyone their conducts thenselves all uppity..it feels like you at something very formal and special..

Country to me just sounds retarded..but there is some fine women in that genre that can really sing..that are very pleasing to my eyes..like that chick that sings.."blue"..I know she was like 13 when that video came out...but that gave me some major wood...man I'm a prevert!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Inearth...your analogy is Jocaim is dead on...and I will be at that show when it comes thru town..I like Hammerfall and Edguy..so that is a no brainer...the best thing Jocaim ever did so far..IMO..is Warlord ..up from the ashes..he sounds pretty decent in that..decent...not great.

Shadows fall has one of the worst singers in the genre..I hate that dude's voice and style big time...but they are a great band and very nice guys I got to know at my bud's place after hours..we got TRASHED till almost five in the morning...that was when they were nobody..back in 2000 or so..just trying to get rollin'..I'm happy for them now..they busted ass..and deserve some recognition..dude likes Zakk Wylde alot...and Zakk had nothing but great words for them...so that means something.

The people who make fun of death and black metal; listen to some pretyy dated and silly stuff themselves...I just want to pull some of their heads out of the 80's and show them that metal never went away..just underground..where I dwell...metal is BETTER than ever...the playing , the production , everything..

as far as "hair" metal..I listened to nothing but shiot like Dokken Ratt , and yada yada..they were great...but then it just git fuckin' gay...gay to the max...that is NOT metal...that is what KILLED metal...make up and lookin' like a bitch is so fuckin' far from metal in my book...but Dokken , Ratt..jumped on that band wagon for a while because that was happening here...BUT they wer alredy established heavy hitting player..

To me The sounds of Mike Tramp and Poison..is the anti-metal...but at least Mike Tramp had Vitto...I couldn't deny that genius..but screw CC man..I have no use or care for that assclown...I don't like his style , I don't like his looks , I donm't like his playing , I don't like him..he's is everything I did'nt like at that time..because they were shitting on what metal was always about to me...and they killed it...with the help of Nirvana..the only real player Poison had were Saraceno and Kotzen..you can't compare CC to those guys..too bad they didn't get a chance to shine with them in their short stint with them...it was alredy game over for them...I thought is was truly a waste of talent..by the time Kotzen and Blues joined them...all thing metal in the mainstrem was DEAD...they didn't even release Crack the liars smile..because it would have just flopped and it did..for this very reason..

Poison shot themselves in the dick...and they should...because they shot metal in the dick..as far as I'm concerned...that was some extreme , cheezy , bubble gum bullshit..NOT metal!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

Hey guys, I may not be here later...

My sis is watching my son..and me and the wife are going to hit the town in my throwdown muthafuckin' COBRA...man is it silly fast..Motorcycle fast..I kick bike's ass with this thing all day and look cool doing it..it makes my PP hard.

when I'm driving that machine...I am KING...with a hard PP...it is my Viagra!!!

then me and the little woman is going home...and we are going to get seriously busy...like two or three times or somethin.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

wish me luck..

talk amoung yourselves...I'll be checkin' in tonight...maybe. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[hippietim]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

I'm not going to read the whole thread. My only opinion on this stuff is really regarding the vocals. Cookie monster vox and the King Diamond style stuff is just retarded. There is enough great music out there so I don't have to listen to that shit.

[Emthrax]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

You crack me up, Tim!

[Flametop]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

Oh he'll be checking in alright... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

"King Diamond style stuff is just retarded. There is enough great music out there so I don't have to listen to that shit."

you know Tim..if you did read this ..you will see I was EXACTL like you in that opinion..as far as all the great shit..I own it...all of it...you think of ONE awesome metal band..I got it..

and you know what man...with that in mind King Diamond is at the top of the heap in awesomeness...well he's really uop there..

don't belive me..listen and TRY to learn Wecome home or Abagail...you ain't gonna do it..Andy LaRoque smokes ANTHING Yngwie could EVER dish out..IMO

well at least it not the same ol' riff for the last 18 years...that shit gets old..

an Yngwie album is equivalent to an AC /DC album...you heard one..you heard 'em all..all the same shit..it's pretty good...but DAMN..it's the same shit..OK..I heard this crap in 1984...fucking move on..do something..."else".

cut off the mullets and move on people.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

BTW..Tonight some silly bastage in a Grand National with a blower wanted to try me..can you say..ANAL RAPE!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img]

OK I'm gonna eat my wife's ass now...see ya later!!

Oh...Tim...for shits and giggles...what's "great" music to you...just curious.

Bye...I love you faggots ..

PS...my PP.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[skorb]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

sorry Bill, I'm all about metal, but I just don't like the cookiemonster vocals (and when I first heard that description I laughed so hard I almost shit out a kidney).
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I need melody my man!! LOL

[Endrik]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

Personally I can't stand cookie monster or whining vocals. I never pay much attention to the lyrics. To me vocal is just like a music instrument. That's why I love great singers like Coverdale, Tate etc. who can sing in higher pitches because it sounds like a really good lead guitar melody. If somone growls or whines then they sound like a Kurt Cobains guitar playing.
And I really don't need to listen to some music where are horrible vocals but the rest of the band is really good because there are so many bands where are good vocals and a great band. I like the whole package.
And I've never concidered the 80's bands Dokken, Ratt etc. (Hair-Metal, Glam-Rock, Pop-Metal whateva) as a metal. To me it is 80's style melodic rock. It doesn't sound like a metal at all IMO.
About the UG music, when I was 16 I listened to some death metal because I taught it was hilarious but I've never could listen to black metal because it is soo friggin GAY, there isn't ANYTHING enjoyable there IMO. Just pure noise in the worst case. And I know what I'm talkin' about cuz I know dudes who listen to that crap and I've heard a lot of that crap because of them. The vocals suck, guitar plaing suck, drumming suck, keyboards suck and there isn't really no bass guitar. They all suck suck suck. Zero musicality. It fucks my brains up like hardstyle-trance. Yup hardstyle-trance sounds just like black metal only trance is made with computers. I can repeat this over again black metal is the worst thing on the earth. And If I see some black metal dude I'll tell him that he sucks and I can kick his ass [img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Inearthed]

Re: Prejudice in metal...stop the hate!

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I can't stand opera singers either but the analogy isn't a good one. The difference is the opera singers are hitting notes where the CM'er isn't. I'd take a CM over an opera any day of the week tho [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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You misunderstood the analogy, though... It is more of a response to the "I can't understand what he's saying" arguments, that a lot of people employ when rejecting Death Metal vocals.

More ramblings... Death Metal vocals take time and effort to get right / sounding good, just like normal singing, it just happens to be that singing well requires a lot more training / practice than the death metal vocals. Anyone can growl and scream for 30 seconds. But to get to the point of doing a 45 minute set, or even a 90 minute set and not losing your voice or your vocals changing over that time period, that takes practice. Also a lot of the training related to singing applies to the death vocals too. Some of the best growlers that I know are actually good singers.