Definition of a band's sell-out?

[Drake S.]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

Metallica after Justice Nuff said, sorry for you diehard fans but I saw them back In San Francisco as a club band. I liked the directions they went in until right after Justice.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

On the flip side, how many really diehard fans do you get who were first drawn to a band's music because they were popular, and then they start searching for the more obscure stuff because they enjoyed the popular stuff? I'd like to think MANY!!

So sometimes, "selling out" can be a good thing in drawing in new/different types of fans. Support the artists you like so they can keep giving us music which we can CHOOSE to listen to if we like it.

[Rokkaholik]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

I don't mind of a band "grows" a little bit here and there, as long as they have their feet planted where they started. It's when a band totally abandon's it's roots and sounds that I'd call it a sell-out. Gaining 2-3 new fans and losing 10 at the same time is hardly a good trade off.

Bands that I thought sold out

Kiss - Carnival Of Souls
Warrant - Ultraphobic & Belly To Belly
Dokken - Dysfunctional & Shadow Life
Skid Row - Subhuman Race
Poison - Native Tongue
Metallica - Black (for some people) and Load/Reload


Those are just a few bands, that in my opinion, totally abandoned their sound and took a really shitty left turn for the worse

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

Slayer sold out? Hmmm... Hadn't thought of them like that before...

[Newc]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

Somewhere In Time sucked. Period. So what, they were using Jacksons. Big deal. 7th Son sucked. Everything after Powerslave sucked IMO because it sounded like sampled riffs from every other Maiden track slapped together and new lyrics thrown over them.

As for Lynch/Dokken - I never cared for either of them, but how is it that ZZ Top can keep up with the times - even including HipHop-style scratches and samples into a cover of Viva Las Vegas and Sleeping Bag, but not get slammed for "not sticking to their roots"?

I understand the majority of music fans who actually play an instrument are the most fickle of all humans, but at what point does a given artist/band/player become a "sell out"?
The point where you're just as good a player as they are, and aren't learning anything new from them because you probably know more than they do, or more than they're showing.

KISS was always a sellout band - they were not pioneering music, they were trying to make a buck playing Rock And Roll in a bar in New York, so they threw on some Kabuki costumes and makeup and played the same songs they had been playing before, but this time the crowds flocked IN instead of OUT.
Yeah they had some great originals, but they were never groundbreaking like Zeppelin, Priest, Sabbath, or Maiden. They were ZZ Top and ACDC in costumes.

Poison/Warrant/Nelson/whatever makeup/hairspray/Motley Crue/RATT spinoff bands were all sellouts for jumping on a bandwagon and being "me too" types instead of doing something even partially different from those bands.
Crue and RATT were there first, everyone else was a copycat, and a poor copycat at that.

Catering to the audience and sticking with a formula that works is exactly why people bash Metallica - they didn't give the fans what they wanted; they didn't stick to the formula that catered to the fans.
ACDC hasn't changed a lot.
ZZ Top hasn't changed a lot.
Aerosmith changed for the worse - everything after Done With Mirrors sounds exactly alike - orchestrated, scripted, and fake. It sells to the chicks and the guys who are chasing the chicks, but from a musical standpoint, they're all whores.

[blindmuddy]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

When you look at albums like the black album, whatever Megadeth came after RIP and Empire, they all have one thing in common. They were all follow ups to great works IMO, really inspiring well thought out stuff that was incredible. And then all of a sudden for whatever reason they all decided to follow up with a bunch of radio friendly 3 minute verse chorus verse blah blah blah bullshit formatted songs. So far of the 3 Megadeth (Dave) is the only one who's made an effort to set things right with the new one sort of.

[IrfaanSE801]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a real snobbish elitist attitude when fans think bands "sell out". To me, it's all musical evolution and experimentation. It's expanding creativity, and covering more sonic territory, not stifling yourself to one thing. I don't want a second "The Number Of The Beast" or another "Screaming For Vengeance" or more "Pyromania".

I can appreciate the various eras of a band's work, even if it isn't necessarily my cup of tea. They work hard to bring us music, and I won't complain. However, others feel the need to, because they're not being appeased. Screw them. If you want to hear a certain something, you try being in a band and making records to your own liking.

They think they're "true fans" when they are gung-ho about a certain album or set of albums. To me, being a true fan is encompassing the entire artist's catalog and finding something enlightening or enjoyable about every little bit.

I am definitely not from the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

By the way, "Somewhere In Time" is, in my very biased view, the single greatest Maiden disc, so if that's a "sellout" album, then I'm a sellout as well. [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

See, I agree with this. I grew up on everything from country, oldies, rap, r&b, rock, metal, classical, jazz and some pop. Music is music, people change, god knows I'd get sick of playing the same songs 4x a week if I were touring, so a change of pace is not always a bad thing. Kids just throw that word around too much, dosen't mean jack to me. When your motive is selling records instead of creating kickass music, then I see ya as a sellout. Best example is Linkin Park... [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Still pisses me off to know they made it as big as they did. In some MTV interview with Kurt Loder he asked (when they released their first album and it had a lot of success) when they're planning on releasing another album, they said they weren't. They were just jamming, someone overheard em and got signed. Anything they did afterwards is just BS to get $. We've got some kickass hard workin mo fo's bustin their ass to get into the business and these guys didn't even wanna do it in the first place. They sat in their wealthy parents house in the suburbs and got lucky. Sounds a lot like jealousy, but I just couldn't believe that answer he gave to that question. Even Kurt Loder looked seriously shocked, like he'd seen someone get killed in front of him or something. I just really hate when people don't appreciate what they have, especially in a business as cutthroat as the music business too, and I can tell you those jerkoffs didn't care one shit for it [img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[Razor]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

[ QUOTE ]
My definition of a sellout is when you change your direction to cater to a larger audience, whether you're making a hell of a lot more money or playing arenas and such (hence selling out).

You're no longer catering to your fans who made you popular in the first place...you start writing sappy pop songs to please everyone and their 10 year old sisters.


[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree with you more warrior! +1

Dokkens' "Shadowlife" is a perfect example of this, as is Lynch Mobs' "Smoke This". I've always thought the Crues' "Generation Swine" was one of the worst sellout albums I've ever heard.

[zeegler]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

I agree. Selling out is that point where you say: "We could play the music we love, and never really make it big, or we could play the music that the mindless masses want to hear, and become multi millionaires. Let's get Bob Rock to produce our next CD!" [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Oh and while we're at it, since Marilyn Manson are super popular right now, one of us should start wearing makeup, black nailpolish, and get some body piercings because then we can sell records to that crowd too. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Jason1212]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

[ QUOTE ]
Metallica after Justice Nuff said, sorry for you diehard fans but I saw them back In San Francisco as a club band. I liked the directions they went in until right after Justice.

[/ QUOTE ]

After Justice they got Bob Rock and got radio friendly. They cut the length of their songs and fine tuned everything so that they could take over the air waves. They need to ditch Rock and produce themselves. Selling out to me is when you let someone else dictate the way you sound.

[Razor]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and while we're at it, since Marilyn Manson are super popular right now, one of us should start wearing makeup, black nailpolish, and get some body piercings because then we can sell records to that crowd too.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

[metallicarocks]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

[ QUOTE ]
Metallica after Justice Nuff said, sorry for you diehard fans but I saw them back In San Francisco as a club band. I liked the directions they went in until right after Justice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diehard Metallica fans? Where?! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

Metallica was the shit at one time..

long...long ago....

RIP

[jgcable]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

I think the term sell-out is incorrect. My feeling has been that many bands just run dry on good song writing. Hey.. not every band can be The Beatles.
The inconsistancy you mention is more attributed to lousy song writing. The radio friendly songs you speak of are probably not coming from the bands but rather coming from the producers and the record company that are pressuring them to release a record so they can go on tour and start making some real money. Once a band is established with hit records the record company no longer cares about the quality of the work.. only the quantity so they can go out and promote it. Couple this with the fact that many bands just cant churn out great song after great song I think you will agree. Almost every band runs dry or has cold spots. Even the greats like Led Zep, Priest, VH, Kiss etc.. have had their share of really crummy records. The only band that I can think of that every record they ever recorded is great is The Beatles.

[donf]

Re: Definition of a band\'s sell-out?

I think accusing a band of "selling out" is a form of jealousy. Sometimes a change of direction is needed. The punk world pointed fingers and accused Green Day of selling out...........man,....... I'd hate to be Billy Joe at this time. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
It must be hell to get outa bed in the morning and kick the money out of the way, just to get to the bathroom.