Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[Thrust]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[ QUOTE ]
Fire every last frekin one of the strikers and hire new ones.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Attitudes like this is EXACTLY what is wrong with America today.

[AlexL]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire every last frekin one of the strikers and hire new ones.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Attitudes like this is EXACTLY what is wrong with America today.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Pointless unions that provide opportunities for workers to be lazy rather than work hard, which drives up the cost of US made goods, are what's wrong with America today.

Unions were a necessity in the days of the industrial revolution. Now, the concept is a dinosaur.

Give the jobs to people who want to work. If NW isn't paying you what you deserve, go work for American or Delta. If none of the airlines are paying what a mechanic deserves, then learn a new trade. It's what the rest of the world has to do.


- E.

[Thrust]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire every last frekin one of the strikers and hire new ones.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Attitudes like this is EXACTLY what is wrong with America today.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Pointless unions that provide opportunities for workers to be lazy rather than work hard, which drives up the cost of US made goods, are what's wrong with America today.

Unions were a necessity in the days of the industrial revolution. Now, the concept is a dinosaur.

Give the jobs to people who want to work. If NW isn't paying you what you deserve, go work for American or Delta. If none of the airlines are paying what a mechanic deserves, then learn a new trade. It's what the rest of the world has to do.


- E.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unions are once again becoming as necessary as they were in the earlier part of the century. With a capitalistic based economic system the motive is for profit. Sure, there is government regulation which helps curb a corporations tendancy to totally screw over their employees as well as the entire market (a side effect of regulations also keeps the corporations from "burning-out") but these regulations only scratch the surface of what is needed.

Read some of Adam Smith to get a feel for what a laissez-faire capitalist economic system would do for America.

With the abscence of unions then there would be a "race to the bottom" by corporations. If Northwest started to pay the average aircraft mechanic say $12 per hour w/ no benefits then what is to stop Delta, American, etc. from following suit? Nothing......all wages will drop without some form of regulation.

Unions are an underappreciated enitity and should be given much more respect than they are given.

If you don't live in the top 10% of the socio-economic class then you owe labor unions nearly everything.

Last, sure I realize they aren't perfect and there has been a trend for business unionism (which has also led to a lot of corruption) but a true labor union should be worth its weight in gold to all who consider themselves middle/lower class.

[AlexL]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[ QUOTE ]

If Northwest started to pay the average aircraft mechanic say $12 per hour w/ no benefits then what is to stop Delta, American, etc. from following suit? Nothing......all wages will drop without some form of regulation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I firmly believe that if the airlines want to keep lowering wages for a position as important as the mechanics who keep the planes safely in the air, then the mechanics should walk off the job. But quit, not strike. At some point, the airlines will have to realize that you can't hire quality workers for 10.00 and hour. I just don't think a union is necessary to maintain said equilibrium.

My biggest beefs with unions is when I do work in New York or Chicago, and I have to show a union worker how to connect and how to operate my video equipment because I am not allowed to connect it or run it myself, when it is my company that designed it. I don't see how having redundant work force is helping keep prices down and quality up for America.

But, bro, that is OK. We do not need to agree. For we are in America, and can speak our minds freely.

Peace. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]


- E.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fire every last frekin one of the strikers and hire new ones.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Attitudes like this is EXACTLY what is wrong with America today.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Pointless unions that provide opportunities for workers to be lazy rather than work hard, which drives up the cost of US made goods, are what's wrong with America today.

Unions were a necessity in the days of the industrial revolution. Now, the concept is a dinosaur.

Give the jobs to people who want to work. If NW isn't paying you what you deserve, go work for American or Delta. If none of the airlines are paying what a mechanic deserves, then learn a new trade. It's what the rest of the world has to do.


- E.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unions are once again becoming as necessary as they were in the earlier part of the century. With a capitalistic based economic system the motive is for profit. Sure, there is government regulation which helps curb a corporations tendancy to totally screw over their employees as well as the entire market (a side effect of regulations also keeps the corporations from "burning-out") but these regulations only scratch the surface of what is needed.

Read some of Adam Smith to get a feel for what a laissez-faire capitalist economic system would do for America.

With the abscence of unions then there would be a "race to the bottom" by corporations. If Northwest started to pay the average aircraft mechanic say $12 per hour w/ no benefits then what is to stop Delta, American, etc. from following suit? Nothing......all wages will drop without some form of regulation.

Unions are an underappreciated enitity and should be given much more respect than they are given.

If you don't live in the top 10% of the socio-economic class then you owe labor unions nearly everything.

Last, sure I realize they aren't perfect and there has been a trend for business unionism (which has also led to a lot of corruption) but a true labor union should be worth its weight in gold to all who consider themselves middle/lower class.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Matt. My dad was a union guy from necessity, not choice. He worked in the aerospace industry (retired after 30 years) and was pissed off nearly every day from idiots he worked with that honed their card playing skills and took naps during the shift, or just basically screwed off all day. They never were written up for that. Dad was - they needed a part from his department taken to another one, and the parts runner was on hour 2 of his lunch.

Dad walked the part 50 feet to another department. He was written up for that. BTW, parts runner showed up after just over 3 hours on his lunch. He didn't get in trouble for it and was paid for a full day's work.

Union dues were also collected and spent on political campaigns - for candidates my dad would have rather set on fire than look at. Couldn't do anything about it.

My old drummer worked at American Airlines (they have a huge maintenance complex at Tulsa International Airport). When he started, he was a little too fast - got too much done. When he came back from lunch one day, they had filled his tool box with oil. He was making the guys playing cards and dicking off look bad.

Union membership basically means that you don't have to work hard anymore - just get a job there and don't screw with the union rules. Doesn't matter if you know what you're doing or actually do a good job - you're in the Union!

One other thing that pissed my dad off was that everyone got raises regularly. EVERYONE got the same raise - it wasn't a bonus for good work, it was your bonus for showing up every week to collect a paycheck. My dad worked his ass off and made the same as the guys playing cards.

Fuck unions. Next time you pay way too much for something, there's probably a union in there lurking around, forcing an employer to pay for dead wood on the payroll.

Pete

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

Unions had their purpose and protected workers from getting the shaft. I was a Teamster when I worked at Detroit Metro Airport. We had the best insurance benefits, better wages and a good solid backing from the union. The unfortunate thing is they have become so corrupt and protect only themselves. What Pete said about his father is true. I saw it with my own eyes, its even more apparent when you have 2 different unions working in the same place. I used to load the planes with food and beverage. If I dropped a can of soda on the dock and picked it up myself, the other union for the dudes who did building maintenance would file a grievance because I did their job...wtf? Now that is unions taking advantage of the situation. To me that was picking up my own mistake, not fucking someone outta wages.

I worked in broadcast television (now internet broadcasting) and if you ever had to get your hardware shipped to a venue that was union ran it was a PITA. You would show up ready to get you gear, its sitting in sight but bam...coffee break or lunch break would come and everyone of them scattered. You couldn't go pick up my own gear. Just another case of unions taking advantage of the situation. Unions can be good for workers but unfortunately they are just another scam unless they change their ways. Un-American, whatever dude.....

[pjg]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I didn't really mean for this to be a pro or anti union thread. I just wanted to warn you all of what I personally saw going on.

But, since we are here, a couple of details about the NW situation. Around 5 years ago or so AMFA (the mechanics union) replaced the IAM as the mechanics bargaining agent. NW accepted this. Since then, NW has laid off about half the mechanics, bringing the work force to roughly 4000. The contract is up for renegotiation. NW proposes a take it or leave it offer of another 53% workforce reduction and a 25% pay reduction for those still employed. AMFA comes back with a counter offer of roughly a 15% pay reduction along with some (details unknown to me)job protections.
NW says FU. In fact NW never expected or wanted to "bargain" as they had started to recruit scabs 18 months ago and spent over 100 million training them. So..

The way I see this one is the company planned all along to force the mechanics out on the streets.

BTW,NW is leading the trend to outsource their aircraft maintenance. They have alot of work done overseas, particularly in Singapore, but I am sure they would be open to taking lower bids.

One of the current favorite domestic overhaul shops is a place called TIMCO. They were recently raided by the FBI because some of their mechanics were illegal aliens and some were possibly on the watch list. Another bit of trivia for you, overhaul shops like TIMCO don't use licensed mechanics. They will hire anyone, even if you don't have a green card.

[Stinkbug]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I worked at Boeing at I saw both sides. Some union guys were hard worked talented mechanics others were lazy jerks that abused it. The good guys typically didn't care for the lazy ones and would often call them out for using the union as a shield but not contributing.

The argument that capitalists companies are just out to make money also applies to the union as well. So that is a self defeating argument. It all starts with greed (both sides) and I am not sure how you fix that.

From what I saw I believe the top brass of Boeing are crooks and so are the union leaders. They both use the people as pawns and should be ashamed of what they do. They still make great planes though!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Ultimately it comes down to this...Any company that has a union deserves one.

[Thrust]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I'll say this and I'm done w/ the topic. I'm obviously pro-union and therefore have an inherent bias towards defending them as well. But, my pro-labor stance comes from years of research on the topic. I wrote my Master's thesis on unionization and will probably write my Doctoral dissertation on the same subject matter as well. I have literally mounds of statistics, journal articles, etc. that suggest, as a whole, unions are beneficial for our country.

I also realize that unions are plagued with problems (lazy workers, profit above goals, corruption, etc.) but the aforementioned problems are not the norm and a "good" union does not tolerate said abuses--these are the kinds I favor.

[OnlineStageGear]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I didn't mean to start a flaming war here, but Union's days of usefullness are long gone. So you want to support the Union there ? Fine. They win and force the company to pay out more money and not just file for bankruptcy, but completely fold up and close thier doors and now nobody there will have a Job. Way to protect the workforce there. If you haven't ready the news lately, most airline companies are in financial trouble.

Unions are the reason why we pay an astronomical amount for Vehicles these days. Most workers in an automotive plant are nothing more than skilled labor. Sorry, but it's the truth. Thier worth on the open market is somewhere between $17 and $20 an hour, but the unions are forcing the auto manufacturers to pay out $50 an hour. That's right folks. My # may be a tad off, but in the mid 90's when they went on strike last time the average auto worker was making $44 an hour.

Unions stand in the way of supply and demand in the work force and don't let companies pay what a job is really worth Up or Down. If you are a Kick-Ass worker and basicly work circles around everyone around you, you sure as hell aren't going to get more money for it becuase the union has already set your pay scale.

Matt

[RacerX]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I just want to say I think it's creepy for union members to snap all those pics of the scabs.

[wulfe13]

Re: Northwest Airlines mechanics strike

I don't have a problem with SCABS in general, they just want to make a living too...

However, I do hope they are skilled enough to do the job!

If you guys never hear from again after Sept 5th and you hear of a crash in Southeast Asia.... well.... CYA!!!