Cindy Sheehan

[shreddermon]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

OK, you got me there, Matt. What I meant was that Saddam didn't support terrorist organizations that were a threat to the US. Palestinian terrorists pretty much only kill Israelis, though.

As to the other countries' intelligence: sure the other countries had stuff, too. But show me one (other than England) that would've voted for the invasion. ...And why wouldn't they? Because they knew it was questionble, at best. Not "fact". And we know now those doubts were well founded.

[Evol]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

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The entire justification for invasion was that Saddam needed to be taken out because he had weapons of mass destruction. ...We all now know that was [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] . A flat out lie. Questionable intelligence about the supposed WMDs was passed off as "fact" to justify the invasion of Iraq.

And now that he can't use that rationale anymore, the President claims we actually went into Iraq to "fight the terrorists". [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] ...Which was it, Mr. President?



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"Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."


"Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas, or biological weapons."

"And so we had to act and act now. Let me explain why. First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years."

--Bill Clinton


Not to count all the other world leaders who had the same "fake" intelligence,this just sounds like plain old partisan politics to me.Let's see,the only man to ever use chemical weapons on his own people,who has attacked his neigbors ,was a very vocal enemy of the U.S.,who advocated and financed terror (sending money to families of suicide bombers),etc,etc...

Nah,this guy couldn't have hidden his weapons somewhere in the desert,or on another allies soil....that's the real [img]/images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

[Evol]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

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If you guys are going to turn it into "Bush Lied", show me the intelligence agencies that were telling him at the time that he didn't have the weapons, because every one I know of, Including France, Germany and Russia all agreed that he has the weapons.

"Unlike Saddam, that regime actually really does support terrorist organizations," How about the $10,000 a piece he gave to the famalies of anyone from Palastine who did a Suicide Bombing ? Would qualify as supporting terrorists ?

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whoops,beat me to it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[SeventhSon]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

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How about the $10,000 a piece he gave to the famalies of anyone from Palastine who did a Suicide Bombing ? Would qualify as supporting terrorists ?

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Got a link, Matt? Not saying that you aren't correct here, but I just never heard this.

Anyway, how about the millions of dollars that go from Saudi oil profits to fund the terrorist schools in Pakistan?

Wouldn't that be a bigger threat to US security than the money that Saddam gave to Palistinean terrorists (whose targets are Israeli)?

I mean this whole war has morphed into "we're doing it for U.S. security, we're there to promote freedom". That's just BS. There are a hundred things we could have done to keep the U.S. more secure than to stop Saddam's alleged $10k bounty to Palestinian terrorists. And there are a dozen other countries that qualify as totalitarian, repressive regimes.

Bottom line, 2000 of our sons/daughters got sacrificed + 2000 more will be sacrificed (if we're to believe the administration's prediction for 4 more years) for a BAD DECISON. Regardless of what the latest "spin" is on the justification for invading Iraq.

[Evol]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

Here's a link http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/ne...rticleID=80630


" Saddam's men summoned the families of 22 martyrs to receive cheques worth in total $245,000. The parents of 21 who died fighting the Israeli army, were given cheque for $10,000 - a fabulous sum in Gaza where most of the population is unemployed and malnutrition is increasing. The family of a suicide bomber receive a premium cheque of $25,000."

Hmmm....I thought the Oil for Fraud program really hurt poor ol Saddam,yet he doled out $1,060,000 that week....yah that policy was really working. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

Lots of good points made. You know what sucks?
It sucks that we have troops being killed everyday in a country filled with fuggin lunatics.
It sucks that we send billions of dollars over there to help rebuild all the shit we blew up.
It sucks that we never caught Osama.
It sucks that we liberated Kawait and spent billions cleaning up the oil fields only to get fugged in the ass when its time to buy gas. $3.00 per gallon sucks considering. We should own that oil. They should have spent billions on more US terminals so that we could take advantage of all the natural gas reserves. We should have spent some of those billions on developing a national healthcare system. We should have spent some of those billions on fixing our illegal immigration problem.
They are never gonna stop killing themselves and our troops in Iraq for as long as we are there. Never. There are already thousands of Cindy Sheehans and there will be 10's of thousands more unfortunately. The Iraq war memorial wall in Washington DC is gonna be REALLY big which makes me very sad.

[guitarsjb]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

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Lots of good points made. You know what sucks?
It sucks that we have troops being killed everyday in a country filled with fuggin lunatics.
It sucks that we send billions of dollars over there to help rebuild all the shit we blew up.
It sucks that we never caught Osama.
It sucks that we liberated Kawait and spent billions cleaning up the oil fields only to get fugged in the ass when its time to buy gas. $3.00 per gallon sucks considering. We should own that oil. They should have spent billions on more US terminals so that we could take advantage of all the natural gas reserves. We should have spent some of those billions on developing a national healthcare system. We should have spent some of those billions on fixing our illegal immigration problem.
They are never gonna stop killing themselves and our troops in Iraq for as long as we are there. Never. There are already thousands of Cindy Sheehans and there will be 10's of thousands more unfortunately. The Iraq war memorial wall in Washington DC is gonna be REALLY big which makes me very sad.

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Well said!!

[SeventhSon]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a link http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/ne...rticleID=80630


" Saddam's men summoned the families of 22 martyrs to receive cheques worth in total $245,000. The parents of 21 who died fighting the Israeli army, were given cheque for $10,000 - a fabulous sum in Gaza where most of the population is unemployed and malnutrition is increasing. The family of a suicide bomber receive a premium cheque of $25,000."

Hmmm....I thought the Oil for Fraud program really hurt poor ol Saddam,yet he doled out $1,060,000 that week....yah that policy was really working. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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appreciate the link. +1 on Oil for Fraud.

However, that bounty was distributed after the fact and when his downfall was imminent. Sounds like more of a publicity stunt than anything. Nevertheless, I won't dispute that he funded Israeli terrorism.

I still disagree that Iraq was a target worthy of 2000 dead + more to come. That's the gist of my opinion.

You may feel that our soldiers died for something worthy, and that's your opinion.

[Soap]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

Okay, its obvious this thread is gonna be a long one and understandably so, its either personal or political.
However, the thread is about the darlin Cindy.

I wonder as already previously posted, if indeed she would have the same position if her son wouldn't died? Thats all.
IMO, I seriously doubt it. Its one thing to be given the platform by the media to share your opinions and concerns about the whole Irag scenario. Its imo, a completely different scenario to use her Son's death to do so. I consider that to be hypocritical, especially using her Son's death to do so. I wonder what her views were before her Son died? Its clear other family memebers don't share the same view. I bet ya she didn't have this same view before either. By doing what she is doing, she not letting her Son have the honorable very significant heroic death he is deserving of. Serving ones country is a very honorable service, she needs to put a sock in it and let her Son have the spot light, not mama.

[Hotrod]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, its obvious this thread is gonna be a long one and understandably so, its either personal or political.
However, the thread is about the darlin Cindy.

I wonder as already previously posted, if indeed she would have the same position if her son wouldn't died? Thats all.
IMO, I seriously doubt it. Its one thing to be given the platform by the media to share your opinions and concerns about the whole Irag scenario. Its imo, a completely different scenario to use her Son's death to do so. I consider that to be hypocritical, especially using her Son's death to do so. I wonder what her views were before her Son died? Its clear other family memebers don't share the same view. I bet ya she didn't have this same view before either. By doing what she is doing, she not letting her Son have the honorable very significant heroic death he is deserving of. Serving ones country is a very honorable service, she needs to put a sock in it and let her Son have the spot light, not mama.

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I don't know, it's been stated that she and her son argued about joining the military in the first place. She didn't want him to, so her view might have been the same. I'm not saying right or wrong, but I think she had a dim view of the military in the first place.

[Mr. Poon]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

SeventhSon- Seriously. Iraq invaded Kuwait and was forced out by the Allies in the early 90s. As part of Iraq's surrender, they agreed to give up their bio/nuclear weapons stocks and programs. Over the course of the 90s, many of these stocks were destroyed but it was far from all their stocks. This is not in dispute. Iraq flagrantly violated 17 UN resolutions and would not allow unimpeded inspections, in accordance with numerous resolutions as well as the surrender agreement.

So knowing this, as well as hearing the CIA (as well as most other modern countries' intelligence agencies) telling him Iraq had bio/nuclear weapons programs, how should Bush have handled it? UN resolution 1441 specifically ordered Iraq to prove what happened to their existing weapons or face serious consequences. These weapons existed at one point, where are they now?

Also, the WMD angle was one of the reasons for invading but there were others. Clinton went into Kosovo based solely on humanitarian reasons, without Congressional approval, without UN approval, and without any "exit strategy". Hussein was responsible for many times more innocent deaths than in Kosovo. If invading Kosovo for humanitarian reasons was okay, why is it not for Iraq?

Not trying to flame, just trying to understand a point of view.

[hippietim]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

She's earned the right to say whatever the fuck she wants.

To the rest of you criticizing her, how much skin do you have in the game?

[Soap]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

imo, I think shes putting a bad spin on her son's death.
Whether that (death of her son) merits her rights to be vocal of Irag, that too is a matter of an opinion. Myself, I'd let my son or daughters service to the country be remembered and the spotlight. But thats just me.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

No need to beat the dead horse here people, its all been said before as far as why we went to war, what was found what wasn't found.

Does she have the right to protest? Yes. Do I think she should she STFU? Yes. This has nothing to do with her son or his death defending this country and everything to do with her wanting attention. Her own family publicly stated they don't have the same point of view as she and they do not approve of her actions. I bet if her son were alive he'd tell her to STFU too...

[Soap]

Re: Cindy Sheehan

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This has nothing to do with her son or his death defending this country and everything to do with her wanting attention. Her own family publicly stated they don't have the same point of view as she and they do not approve of her actions. I bet if her son were alive he'd tell her to STFU too...

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+1
Thats what I'm saying.
Your saying the same thing just alittle differently.