OWNED (Katrina related)

[hippietim]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

The bottom line here for me regarding all these folks is that this disaster was a time for LEADERSHIP. Not one single person took control of the situation. Not one leader did the right thing. The mayor of New Orleans didn't step up and deliver the goods (although he had a great rant). The Governor of Louisiana didn't step up. The FEMA/DHS leadership didn't step up. Congress sat paralyzed. And finally Bush didn't step up. You can say we have the benefit of hindsight and that's true. But remember, ALL of these so-called leaders had the benefit of foresight. There was NO secret for DAYS in ADVANCE that this storm was gonna be a mother fucker.

[hippietim]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

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If you don't want to see it happen again then the answer is quite simple- EVACUATE the area when you told to do so ..

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It is not that simple. Really. It isn't. There were certainly dumbasses that didn't get out that could. But there were thousands that had no means to get out. And then there's the fact that the pinhead mayor didn't give the evacuation order until it was too late for many.

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You still to date have people who refuse to leave an area that is largely uninhabitible and on the verge of bearing diseases through the air and mosquito populous .. over what?

[/ QUOTE ]
over everything they have and all they know. I don't think they should stay either but I'm not living their life.

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I think there were mistakes at every level with this disater but people fail to remember the size of the area impacted and make it sound like it's a few city blocks and an easy thing to manage..

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Exactly. This is where it takes leadership, coordination, and preparation.

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People also need to remember we havent seen a natural disaster of this magnatude at least within most of our own lifetimes therefore it's tough to easly react ..

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We've seen some whoppers. None this bad here but remember the predictions were that it was going to be more devastating than it was. Shouldn't we have been doubly prepared than normal? The reaction time wasn't as good as last year's responses to far lesser storms.

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It's time to stop pointing fingers and laying blame and start learning from the mistakes.. It easy to say Bush failed... How about finding ways to make this better instead of taking the negative path ...

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. In order to identify and fix the problems you will ultimately have to point fingers. It is unavoidable. It is not possible to discuss the issues in the abstract and accomplish anything.

[Bert]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

For every armchair sociologist thinking a few Fox news accounts of the situation makes them qualified to blame the entire situation on the welfare state, there are accounts like this one from people who were actually THERE that I have found truely disturbing:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight...es/006754.html

The handling of the Katrina response is a huge cluster-fuck, any way you look at it. Only those in serious denial could think otherwise. It DOES need to be thoroughly and immediately investigated.

[MBreinin]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't want to see it happen again then the answer is quite simple- EVACUATE the area when you told to do so ..

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

It is not that simple. Really. It isn't. There were certainly dumbasses that didn't get out that could. But there were thousands that had no means to get out. And then there's the fact that the pinhead mayor didn't give the evacuation order until it was too late for many.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, first of all, Nagin is far from a pinhead. He is the only competent politician, besides Mary Landrieu, in this entire debacle. Nagin gave the mandatory evacuation order on Sunday. That was enough time. However, he was on TV telling people to get out on Saturday. You have to understand that Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation for Ivan last year, and ordered it very early, and it caused serious, serious gridlock issues. I think he was trying to hedge in this case..he didn't want to give a mandatory order and have the storm turn like Ivan...that may have resulted in even less of a chance that people would heed the warning when it came again. He also didn't want people to panic. Look, if you have an IQ that reaches above 60, you could ascertain from watching the news that New Orleans was in trouble. You don't need a Mayor to tell you to get out. I left on Saturday because I knew the evacuation order was going to come on Sunday. However, on Saturday it was still VERY up in the air where the storm was going to land. Keep that in mind.

Also, even if Nagin had driven buses through neighborhoods with the Marines on guard he would not have been able to move the people out before the storm. Unless you are from New Orleans, or have lived there, you just don't know what it is like. These are not normal, rational people. Hell, I would venture that a large number of people that got stuck in the lower 9th, the Projects and parts of the East didn't even know that damn storm was coming. And even if they did, they would have stayed. These people, for the most part, have nothing. And what little they have, they aren't leaving behind. The Chalmatians in St. Bernard, the ones that stayed, probably did so with pride...not all of course, but plenty.

The bottom line for ME is this. That little stoolie Rove, that fucking CRIMINAL Rove, is behind a huge, massive coverup effort in this case. They have already determined that they are going to pass the buck to Blanco and Nagin. That machine is rolling, and in the end that will be the result. However, people in the media know this is happening and they are trying to keep the train on track, keep the eyes of America focused on an inept adminstration that has done nothing but put Americans in harm's way.

If Congress was held by the Dems, Bush would be getting impeached about now.

Mike

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Wow, what an article...

Strange, I posted a similar type of thing and the thread was locked. Mayeb mine was more blaming I guess...

What's that about.... Very interesting...

[bombtek]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Tim,
I gotta admit you had some good pints....errr no I had the pints when I typed that last night....points...in rebuttal to my post. I guess what I really should have said (without having a bottle of vodka in front of me) is that it is NOT the time to be pointing the finger at anyone, it is the time to help these people out. What I just don't understand is why it came to this in the first place. There is a what you could call a "standard" to go by in that situation. Florida...their neighbor....faces these storms on a continuous basis and aside from Andrew, (which did not have nearly the death toll nor injury toll) ...handles these storms with ruthless efficiency....MINUS help from the federal government until it is time for cleanup (money)....It never should have come to this as far as I am concerned, and Bush is not the person to place blame with, I eel that it is the local Louisiana government that is at fault for not having a plan (which is ludicrous given the vulnerability of New Orleans) in place to deal with a storm BEFORE it causes enormous loss of life and injuries to the local populace. I am not an educated person by any means...I have a GED ....but, even I can see that the way it was handled (I was talking to the guys at work about it beore the storm ever hit saying "I hope that they do this like Florida does"). I know that at the beginning I said that now is not the time to place blame, but, if blame is to be put on anyone, it should be rightly placed. This never should have happened.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

I said it before that this was total failure from all levels of government, local, city, state and federal levels. You can't point the blame a single one, all of them failed big-time.

I hate seeing the race and political card being thrown it faces of everyone. NOLA had no plan to evacuate those who could not evacuate, mainly the elderly, the poor and the people in hospitals too ill to leave.

[MBreinin]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
I said it before that this was total failure from all levels of government, local, city, state and federal levels. You can't point the blame a single one, all of them failed big-time.

I hate seeing the race and political card being thrown it faces of everyone. NOLA had no plan to evacuate those who could not evacuate, mainly the elderly, the poor and the people in hospitals too ill to leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, everyone bears the burden of blame in this case.

NOLA did have a plan, they even practiced it. They just didn't get it up and running. That is no surprise.

Mike

[GodOfRhythm]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Now that was rhetoric at its best.

I don't know who the guy is but goddamn he NAILED it.

[mhalsey]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

When did this nutbag move from drooling over Johnny Wackaball's ERA on ESPN to moronic commentary on MSNBC? I didn't realize a slip of the tongue by one official defines a whole administration. Let's see KO's slips. I'm sure there are many buried deep in the video archives of ESPN. Also, when is some of this blame gonna be pinned on local/state officials. I'd bet my bottom dollar that old mayor boy had HIS family and prized possessions moved to safety looooooooong before the storm hit.

[txcharvel]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
For every armchair sociologist thinking a few Fox news accounts of the situation makes them qualified to blame the entire situation on the welfare state, there are accounts like this one from people who were actually THERE that I have found truely disturbing:

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight...es/006754.html

The handling of the Katrina response is a huge cluster-fuck, any way you look at it. Only those in serious denial could think otherwise. It DOES need to be thoroughly and immediately investigated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I just read that article...I'm speechless...I honestly don't know what to say.

I think in the coming weeks we will hear many stories like this [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[MBreinin]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
Also, when is some of this blame gonna be pinned on local/state officials. I'd bet my bottom dollar that old mayor boy had HIS family and prized possessions moved to safety looooooooong before the storm hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are working overtime on blaming Nagin and Blanco, trust me. In then end, when "Kriminal Karl" is done spinning, Bush will look like a hero and Nagin and Blanco will be painted as incompetent buffoons whose ineptitude prevented the wonderful Bush administration from intervening earlier. It has already been in full gear for close to a week...and it sickens me.

Mike

[GodOfRhythm]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
that old mayor boy had HIS family and prized possessions moved to safety looooooooong before the storm hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smart man.

[~K~]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, what an article...

Strange, I posted a similar type of thing and the thread was locked. Mayeb mine was more blaming I guess...

What's that about.... Very interesting...

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm getting a bit sick of the shots of threads getting locked. For the recoard I locked it after getting a complaint.. end of story

[txcharvel]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Hey Mike, I'm curious (not pointing fingers at all here)...just want your POV since you are local.

Isn't the bridge where everyone was camped (from the above article) the bridge that goes into your part of town? Who is the Sheriff over there?

It really is a total cluster, but the I do believe the local authorities have the initial responsibility to look after their own citizens. The Feds have a lot of blame here also, I'm not saying they don't. But NOLA new they were in a bad situation and didn't do everything they needed to do in order to protect their own citizens. When the local government failed, the feds stepped in (was it fast enough? no).

When you look at the total number of refugees, I think it's amazing that we were able to move that many people out on buses in such a short amount of time.

Setting up the Superdome as a shelter without having basic needs like food and water is pretty irresponsible. In a worst case scenario (which is pretty much what happened), what was the plan to feed these people and give them water? In this case I have to say the blame rests with the mayor and the local govt of NOLA and the state of LA. It really sounds like there was no plan and it was all thrown together at the last minute.

I remember a news article before the storm saying that people seeking shelter at the Superdome were instructed to bring enough food and water to last 5 days. Well, if everyone would have done this it might have been a better situation...but is that even a reasonable request. It would be a very daunting task to take enough food and water for my family of 5 for 5 days. Putting those people together in that building with no provisions and no plan was totally irresponsible.