OWNED (Katrina related)

[horns666]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Well man..it sounds like you had some fun. You know , even in that kind of scenario. we depend on each other alot more than watching each others's asses. We try to make the job as pleasant as possible , become great freinds..i always tried to have fun..and laughed in the craziest times...i loved that shit!!

Cops are the biggest ballbusters..and goofs ever..most make me look lame..that's why they're all divorced..I didn't want a divorce so I went home after work..not these guys..never. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

all they wanted to do was talk about work and drink until someone busts a cap in the bar..in the ceiling..just because. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

shit you think I'm bitter.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

to alot of these guys that job is their life and whenever they get into some major departemental shit..fired..or just retired..they eat the gun...I knew ten dudes that did that...two very close friends. [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

I had a "life"..that "job"..pays the bills to have a decent life.

You know there's times when things just got out of control and knew when to back the hell off..until your bros arrived..those sirens were music to my ears sometimes..

and I rarely got into shit..but if I called for assist..they knew it was serious..and I return the favor everytime...of course.

even cops that don't like each other watch each other's backs..because sometimes they may be all you got.

I miss it..i wasn't ready to go yet. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Emthrax]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]


BTW, New Orleans homocide rate is 10 times the national average... BEFORE the hurricane hit. The greatest percentage of people who didn't evacuate were the poorer, less educated people. When you drive the education rate and poverty level of a group down, the more likely the crime and violence rate is to go up. Compound this aggregation of bad influence with a natural disaster, and you have a place like New Orleans being labeled "New Mogadishu" by the Armed Forces and rescue efforts. A term that actually fits, by all accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

You hit the nail on the head, Xeno! Someone started another thread (that was deleted) and referenced a writer/reporter who mentioned these same exact things. It was well written.
Good points. All very true.
Still, it's rather depressing that things like this happen. It will take time, but New Orleans/Gulf area will be back. That thought makes me feel better. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[charvelguy]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

I saw the articles on the GOPUSA site written by the former LA Parish councilman..sounds like he still wants to run for office. Comparing disorder in New Orleans to the streets of Baghdad and actually refering to betting a wager that Baghdad being safer...
I would hestitate going to Baghdad even under armed military escort...do I feel that way about Louisiana, no. Simply No. While I'm sure its hellish, people are driving and going to stores in some areas and trying to put life back on track under the watchful eye of the National Guard.
Would I have concern to fear for my life? of course, and one would need to exercise prudence along with that but I do not see it being in the degree of a foreign country we are at war with where the populace hates you. I'm not even speaking in a military sense either. You need to excercise prudence in some areas of Los Angeles as you do in NO as a general citizen also. Even here, there are some areas I do not go into or am at discomfort with walking about in during the day ... I know that look I get in some neighborhoods here, yeah, it can be intimidating, they want to be that way for a reason and sometimes get pissed if you ignore it. There's a prejudice there I personally didn't bring in with me. They just don't like me being in what seemingly is their neighborhood. It plays out that way all over the US. Crime is crime as is racism and it happens all across the board, not just in the poor black folk or NO. Not saying there isn't a problem there in NO, there were problems and likely still has the potential. The place is basically a war zone, it will be for some time...and it's being addressed. Had the guard been there on day 1 or 2 in good number and supplies stocked with evacs taking place and planned for, do you think the result would be different? I do.
I'm not even going to state illiteracy rates or unemployment or welfare rates..yes, I'm somewhat familiar to those over the last 15-20 years also. I do not look at those stats in consideration for the situation those people as US citizens had to endure in being told this is where you had to evacuate to if you can't leave the city on your own accord and you live in an unsafe area. They were then left to fend with the potential of no running water, electricity or supplies for days.


But.. even more disturbing is this article... LA Jihad against Police called

[horns666]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img]....today is the 4th anniversary ..yeeeesh..

I'm sure security will be buttoned up tight today..airports , nuclear plants..and etc.

we would probaly freak if we really new how musch "Jihad" is in our country..I sure the feds know about them and keeping tabs on them..i hope!

hitting us while our attention is diverted...well in that case they just had their chance..I guess where doing ok keeping the squash on their bs here so far ..cool!

[charvelguy]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

yeah, it's pretty gutsy of them to do that out in the open. I recall seeing the call for Jihad against the US from Bin Laden on the internet back in '98 tho too. When I saw that site, it just creeped me out. I glad they're tossing the outspoken ones (namely clerics living on public welfare) in praise of 9/11 terrorists out of London too. Let em live in outspoken freedom on someone elses bankroll, not the peaceful citizens of London. While you do have freedom of speech, you need to draw the line as to what is in the interest of safety for the good of country and majority of peaceful people. Maybe 'they' will consider that a wake up call in return.

[horns666]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

I would assume we know who they are and watchingh them like hawaks..I hopr that is tjhe case..but we have some weak borders that can be easily penetrated..

but I can't se them planning something on a grand scale such ass 911..except for a large shopping mall or something..those would be fairly easy targets...with biochemicals.

I saw a training video of a WOMD scenario when a terrorist released chemicals into a trash bin in a busy food court. well anyone near the canister was immediately sick and falling out..and then the people responding to their aid is exposed and they're falling out ..and you always have about 50 spectators watching within' a 20 foot circle..and they are all infected.

That could easily happen..

[charvelguy]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

yeah, Mall of America here still crosses my mind on occasion as being a prime terror target. That and the Great Lakes border security and how they track cargo that comes in from ships has had me concerned at times. I haven't been to the MOA much at all in the last four years. Couldn't see myself working there either but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I'm going to try to live without fear of terrorism and anthrax attacks that were the events occuring so prevelant 4 years ago.

[xenophobe]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

[ QUOTE ]
Comparing disorder in New Orleans to the streets of Baghdad and actually refering to betting a wager that Baghdad being safer...

[/ QUOTE ]

Baghdad is safer than New Orleans right now. The "death toll" of soldiers in Iraq isn't any worse than the slums of any major US City. You'd would be more likely to die walking the slum streets of Compton, Oakland, Chicago, New York, Las Vegas or *pick your major city* at night.

On September 8, 2004, the Los Angeles Times reported (The Conflict In Iraq, U.S. Toll in Iraq Reaches 1,000) that through September 7, 2004, 1,000 US soldiers lost their lives in Iraq due to both hostile and non-hostile actions.

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report of May 24, 2004, the number of murders reported during calendar years 2002 and 2003 show a comparable death toll exists in several US cities. Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City reported 1,168, 1,246 and 1,184 murders during the subject 24-month period.

The average monthly death toll for US soldiers in Iraq is 55.6 deaths per month while the average reported murders per month in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York City are 48.7, 51.9 and 49.3 deaths per month. The murder statistics in the US cities are for hostile deaths only — whereas the death toll in Iraq includes both hostile and accidental deaths.

The facts are readily available on the internet. I won't post links because you can find all this info for yourself, and use a calculator.

[ QUOTE ]

Had the guard been there on day 1 or 2 in good number and supplies stocked with evacs taking place and planned for, do you think the result would be different? I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would have been nice, but that's just not realistic. Many of the NG sent in to Louisiana were picking up after Katrina themselves. Much of the rescue and support that New Orleans is receiving are from states that suffered heavily from damage as well.

[charvelguy]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

well, I say if you think your life in Baghdad is safer than your major US city and your pointing out stats saying how shitty things are here relative to there..gee, sounds like a one way plane ticket is just the thing for ya. If you don't like the element of crime and risking your life...don't go into the area or live in Copenhagen where the crime is really low. Øresund region

Like I said in my post..there are parts of town I don't like going into even in the day. There are also some parts of the state I won't drive in at certain times at night cause the cops are like sharks swimming in chum at bar closing time in a college town.

[hippietim]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Xeno - your stats are incomplete. For starters, you are only including the death toll of US soldiers. What about US civilians, British soldiers, Iraqi's, etc. Assuming for the moment we are being callous enough to not count those other people, then your stats are invalid for another reason: you are comparing the number of US soldier deaths in Iraq to various cities without considering the population. As a percentage of Americans in Iraq vs. Americans in any of those US cities you mentioned, you stand a WAY better chance of getting killed as a US soldier in Iraq than a citizen in New York.

I've never been to New Orleans so I can't say for sure about the dangers (particularly now), but I've been to Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain and I can tell you that those folks there looked like were ready to shoot me at anytime - particularly in Saudi Arabia.

[MBreinin]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

The difference between being in Baghdad and being in New Orleans is that in New Orleans the simple act of being armed would be sufficient protection against attack. Plus, you know where to go, and where not to go. In Baghdad you are vulnerable in all areas, and death is often quite a surprise. There are no roadside bombs or suicide bombers in New Orleans and a New Orleans "sniper" probably couldn't hit the Superdome from 50 yards. I would much rather place my odds of survival in the hands of New Orleans than Baghadad anyday.

Mike

[xenophobe]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

I don't have time to crunch the numbers right now, I'll do so after work, unless you care to do some work yourself....

A) Military Fatalities: 2093 total
http://icasualties.org/oif/

B) Iraqi Civilian Death Toll: 24680-27930
www.iraqbodycount.net

C) Iraqi population est. July 2005 26,074,906
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/iz.html

I don't have time, but please add up all US related deaths, violence and accidental for the relative time periods (both Iraqi and Coalition death tolls are over a 2 year span or so, so that must be factored in as well)...

Divide by 11.3 (aproximate ratio compared population of US 1:11.3)

US Population: 295,734,134
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/.../2119rank.html

On a quick and dirty, based on 2003 estimates, the mortality rate in Iraq is 5.54 deaths/1000 population, the US is 8.44 deaths/1000 population:

http://www.bartleby.com/151/fields/25.html

And looking at the raw numbers, I don't think you'll see much of a significant increase.

Any statisticians here who would like to crunch while I slave at work?

Some help for you:

CDC mortality numbers:
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate.html

FBI Uniform Crime Reports:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

EDIT:

BTW, Tim, the stats for many of the deaths in Iraq are because of WAR and I presented stats from liberal leaning sites to ease any discontent you might have from using unbiased or right leaning sites. There is no WAR going on in America, yet the rate of violent death is comparible. That must be taken into consideration too. America is no war zone.

[horns666]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

oh boy look at those numbers..

BTW..Uniform crime reports..please take into condsideration that about 50% of crime goes unreported..meaning never getting to paper..no paper...no report..no crime..

I remember when the moral of my police department was really low ..so we all slooooooooooooooowed down..tickets , crime reports , everything..the mayor was really F-ing with us big time.

well , we quickly discovered that we just shot ourselves in the pud..why...lower stats..lower crime reports..lower ticket numbers..means lower crime rates ..so we MUST be doing are job even BETTER.!! [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

so what happend..they laid off 300 cops a couple years ago...and firemen.

i guess we showed them!

[charvelguy]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

actually I have to correct myself.. we're not at war with Iraq, we're at war with terrorists in Iraq. You know what I meant.

Not trying to dis our guys over there.. but I seem to recall alot of looting and like crimes similar to those which were present in NO going on in Iraq when Saddam's gov't fell where we couldn't contain the situation there as well.
I also seem to recall, some of it was by soldiers as well.
Some guys thought 'spoils of war', but they also were corrected as that was not what we were there to do.

As far as the Guard going in after day one or two...I firmly believe those who were stationed in TX, OK, AR, TN in areas not directly effected could have been mobilized.
Someone, anyone of significant political influence to make that call needed to get in a chopper and survey the area.

Our infrastructure did not or was not prepared or taking action, IMO.

[MBreinin]

Re: OWNED (Katrina related)

Xeno you can site statistics all day long. I would venture that 99% of the population would rather take the odds of an american inner city than the streets of Baghdad.

To try to make a comparison between the two is just callous, if you ask me.

Mike