Bass Shredding

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

John, you're the only one here that seen me play umpteen times and ..and ya bust my balls..ummm..thanks? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

I tapped with four fingers ..because I can..did you see the Stu Vid..like that...anyone can do it it with one..four makes it easier..IF you know how.

E...If Billy ever played 8 finger tapping it was never recorded or seen..not by me. [img]/images/graemlins/refuse.gif[/img]

OK it is horribly recorded..This wasn't meant to be a major show piece.. it was a spot where John had a solo..I filled it in with that eight finger arpeggio bass part right before my gutar solo, if you can hear it ..

the guitar solo is very shrilly..because my dude on xanax recorded it too low and had to boost the levels into the red..just to be heard..this was a porta studio tape 4 trk tape recorder..

Besides the main riff is the hardest stretch I ever had to play on bass..but I followed the guitar part with NO prob all in one take.

Father Felon
http://clevelandmetalzone.com/evilut...3/2ff_demo.mp3

The tapping run start at 2:04 in the song..it's hard to hear and goes by fast.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Bass Shredding

I'm busting your balls cuz you can't talk! I know you can play ya jack off.

Bill actually does have the boom to back up his talk. He's a pretty serious bass fag when he applies himself.

I don't follow Sheehan much and figure he must be good to on the material he does and with who he does it with. But that video was lame and Bill smokes that shit on the video.

Bill is definitely more the Stu Hamm school, and precise and quite the player.

Shame bass just isn't in his blood, because he used to get offstage from playing bass and people would just be crowded around him and up his ass about how great he was after his bass solo. And they'd the totally ignore the EVH clone that was shreddding all night like a madman, like WTF?

But Bill was always a guitar player at heart and gave up being a monster bass player that everyone wanted, so could be a guitarfag that could get NOTHING, not a pat on the back or anything... Cuz there's a million competent guita guys out there. Never could figure it out, too many metal mania videos soured him on the bass, haha.. but it was his choice... He's a good guitar guy, but a totally fucking great and quite serious bass player.

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

Thanks man...you brought back some good memories.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

That's why my old best friend (best man) hates me still..He was Eddie in the band..and nailed that shit..with all that hard work getting the programs down for those songs..learning every note..

and after the show..I got all the attention..just from that five minute solo..and offer after offer..

I'm sorry we had to part ways..I never knew he was that petty..I was just doing my thing and a good job for the band..but he took it personal.

I REFUSED to do a Michael Anthony...holy shit my Christ! [img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/sick.gif[/img]

Now Sheehan can SMOKE that...Rolling around like a tard jumping on my bass was a definite ..NO NO.. [img]/images/graemlins/nono.gif[/img]

One day..I'll buy some Bass gear (Carvin/G&L) and John and I will Rule the clubs once again..together..whenever we both get the spark and feel like it..I will play my ass off for him..he's a great guiatrist that can do Criss Oliva to a T..I'd love to play that stuff.. [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Bass Shredding

[ QUOTE ]
One day..I'll buy some Bass gear (Carvin/G&L) and John and I will Rule the clubs once again..

[/ QUOTE ]

Ehh, you just wanna wear spandex, spin your hair and be a guitar god....

[Cuthroat]

Re: Bass Shredding

[ QUOTE ]
I think Victor Wooten smokes about everyone on that list

[/ QUOTE ]

thats an understatment bro. I was suprised that noone mentioned him until page 3 of this thread [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] I remember seeing bela fleck and the flecktones on austin city limits YEARS ago and I was absolutely stunned. The video that xeno posted was victor I believe (correct me if Im wrong).

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

I saw Wooten for the first time with Bela Fleck on The Johnny Carson show..and the mother fugger ..splapped his ass off and did a back flip..I saw GOD! [img]/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

But I am still partial to Stu's style..he has SO much Meter , Feel and emotion..and speed and accuracy..he's sick..But I'm close behind.

He makes Billy Sheehan look like a Jerry's kid ..he's a poser with a few cool licks...IMO

I may as well plug a bass into my maxed Uberschall..shit it'll prolly sound better.

Stu is an amazing MUSICIAN..no posing there, just as Victor..no cloaking devices..just all fingers and hands and talent.!

Like I said..Comparing those two is like comparing Jeff Loomis to The Great Kat in my book.

Hey fuggit..you guys are guitarists ..well some of you are ...whadda you fuggin' know..I'm a TRUE whoop ass bassist..this is like me arguing with a great drummer ..or a flute player or a tuba player on who's best..get the fuck outta here.. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cuthroat]

Re: Bass Shredding

Hey bill, hurry up with the video. If you can hang with sheenan, I gotta see this for myself

On that subject, sheenan is fast but I agree with most of you guys. I could sound like that with that much distortion. Sheenan doesn't impress me all that much. Victor wooten, on the other hand, is how the bass is played

BUT

Im partial to P-nut from 311. I love how he compliments the music on the bass. I think I might be the only 311 fan on the jcf [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] but p-nut is awesome. I think I might be alone on this one [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

That's cool Chris..I can hang with Sheehan ANYDAY..I learned shyboy in half an hour note for note..I read a few notes with a tab to put me in position in the solo and went from there with the gutarist 20 years ago when it came out..DLR version not the talas version..piece of cake...Yankee Rose took me a whole five minutes to learn..about the length of the song. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I also learned Billy entire solo note for note off the talas album when it came out..I do a section of it in my solo...you'll recognize instantly it if you're a sheehan fan..I nod to him and stu on purpose in my solo..because those two were "the shit" at that time.

I have heard good comments of two bassists that I never heard..because I don't care for a band's particulair "style"..and that is 311 and Mudvayne..yeah two different styles..but I haven't followed either..

I just a pure metal tard..that's all I know..a idiot servant of metal if you will..

except for when it comes to "bass"..then I'm all about the fusion shit..because most metal bassists are lame..or at least their parts are..I think..mostly just riding on roots over a double kick or something..not ver exiting..

there is a couple metal dues I like Myung of DT and a new greek metal band called CASUS BELLI on LMB records....Panos the guitarist is AWESOME too..their bassist sounds like he came from the same school as I did..even the wife thought so...she goes ..that's sounds like you..I was thinking the same thing at the same time.

John and I went to see Rhasody from Italy..and their bassist did a hell of a slap and tap solo..we just laughed..I just said.."yeah I know".. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I want to get that video ASAP..for one it's the only proof I was ever in a VH tribute and two..I want to smoke your asses! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Endrik]

Re: Bass Shredding

That's the main difference, Stu and Victor are musicians Billy is not, he is a rock star. Billy is a great berformer and a great songwriter. And he has different roots than the other guys. Wooten and Stu can slap like no one else, Levin does the most impressive 8 finger tapping but Billy is pretty damn fast at staccatto "picking", finger version of alternate picking if I can describe it like that.

Mudvayne's Ryan is DAMN good, he is not a metal player at all. He is influnced of Stu Hamm and John Patitucci. He has one of the best bass tones I've ever heard. I have some Mudvayne's bootlegs, when the dude getts bored he just plays two hand tapping and slapping on the entire song [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

Dudes I'm sorry if I came of as a dickhole. I been busting hump for over 25 years as a bassist to get where I was. I peaked and that was it ..I became bored. I'm not the guitarist I am as a bassist but I'm trying to catch up. The desire for greatness on bass was achieved and established here localy. Whenever anyone needs a bassist I'm the first one they call..so that gave me my fill.

But I alway wanted more..but at the time nobody seemed to care. Shred was dead.. it just wasn't "cool" I knew guys that could play rings around John, myself and others very good..and they were ashamed to shred...ashamed of being technicaly proficient..I didn't get it. [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

Joe Stump came here a few years ago..and five people showed up including his band and me and John..and he's GREAT and a great dude and musician..a world class player in my book!

It was the era of Grunge / Nu and Ebonica..and solos were "gay"..

Look how much Mr. Big dummied down compared two their first two releases.

Billy Shrehan earned his stripes man..I read 20 years ago that he did like 3000 gigs..now thats dedication and a lot of work..I'm just "bitter" that I couldn't make a living at it ..and in my mind ..well I could do anything he could do..and then some..seriously.

He was going to be the original bassist for Van Halen..but Alex didn't want to steal and thunder from his bro..dave did alot of that himself already..and Mike was a good choice to lay back and stay in the pocket...Mike is Tight...I learned like 50 VH songs..he's a bit under rated at times..but his solos always suck..amusing , funny..but nothing "musically' cool at all..

I'm 41 now..my "wish I was a rock star" days are over..I can hold my own on bass against anyone..but I don't care anymore..

The fire I lost with Bass ..I wanted a "challenge" again and dabbled on guitar guitar in the early 90's and in 97 seriously...I sold all my bass gear in 97 and could count on my hand how many times I picked up a bass since..but it's like riding a bike...it's in my blood but not in my heart..

I should have made it..but I was very busy with my wife , son and job and was never home..I had bills to pay and couldn't leave a decent steady paycheck and take chances of "making it"..when I'm the bread winner..I can't take chances like that..espcially when it comes of taking care of them.

One of my local "fans" was Ripper Owens he came to see me everytime I played in his town with his girl..and bought me drinks all night..he's in a band with a freind called Beyond Fear now..The guitarist is OK..I can actually smoke him..but he's a pretty good dude and decent player, manager at GC..I'd play bass for them I'd guess...hey it's "Ripper"..so if anything..that may be "something"..I'm thinkin'...hey waht if Iced Earth needed a basists..and He knows what I'm about..so there ya go..

Like many of you guys ..You work hard as hell getting your chops / tone down and get discouraged and see others that you know is weaker than yourself and become HUGE..but that's how shit works..in the biz Talent isn't everything..it the right place at the right time with the right folks..but talent helps.

Billy is cool..I do "respect" him ..he's a very nice guy and a GOOD player..well he's prooved that. I think I do smoke him and you may too if you'd knew me..I busted ass to do so..but I'm a nobody..so yeah..sure..I'm jealous...I admit it.

So, No offense to any Billy fans..just venting a bit..I been playing longer than some of you been alive..so yeah..I vent. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'll give him some props..I guess that;'s the right thing to do..he's been where I always wanted to be..so he did "something" right.

But WTF did I do wrong..and I'm not alone..there is many of us here in that situation..we have some high calibre players here on this board..so maybe you guys can realte..maybe not to "sheehan" but there is otheres you must harbor these feelings for..I would assume..I'm sure some of you guys can realate..

I heard some of you fags play..I know you can..Like Shawn , Pete and John for example and that new dude..I forgot his name but he's a young monster here that floored my with his MP3.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

BTW..I'm not just saying this because he's my bud..But John would have been the PERFECT repacement in Savatage when Criss passed..I'm not kidding..I mean he does better than anyone that has stepped in those shoes for far, ..and I totally mean that..and if you heard him..you would feel the ghost of Oliva himself..with the goosebumps and everything..I told that to Jack Frost once..

So this whole thing was just me venting my years of frustration..I meant no foul to anyone..I know I was putting my neck on the chopping block by saying all this stuff..but I had to.


Now, John G , E and others .. You guys KNOW I give so much praise to all the great players and mention all the unsinung heroes amoung the know ones...it is not like me to slam a established player..but I only do so when I know I can eat em and smile..

I think I have earned that "credilbilty" here..I don't make it a habbit of saying good players "suck" now do I..maybe guys like Limb Biscuit and shit..but I said "good" players..like my big long ass list of Guitar gods and bands..that is ever growing..because I explore and buy so much music..and when ever I fing one..like Cusus Belli..I'm the first dude to share my joy of a great new band or player with your guys..

I have the new Pagan's Mind on right now as I'm writing this called "nigmatic calling"that any Prog metal fan would dig..I'm diggin' it..I like their last one a little better ..but this is very good!


That's my rant..I you really knew me ..I'd think you would unserstand muche better where I'm coming from..

Take care my Brothers..and thank you for being pateint and calm during my venting BS..and chest pounding..it prolly sounded silly without something to fall back on..

I'll post it ..I'm at this dudes mercy to tranfer that vid to disk..so it'll happen..I'll post a VH tune too..with the whole band..it's was really fun any VH fan would love it..name the song and I'll post that one if it's on tape..it's only half the show because the battery died..but there is alot of good DLR era stuff on there..I would go with Atomik Punk..Or Ice Cream man..no go with Atomik Punk ..a chick comes up and takes off here panties and chases me around with them on stage while I'm playing that tune..yeah that's a good one..she pulls them right off on camera...I was like oh no the wife..jeez!! [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Take car my bros..

Bill Z Bub..

BTW anyone see that SNL skit..I wish I had that...that was so funny with Jack Black and Will..it was my second fave to the Walken BOC Cowbell skit.. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

Yer Right E..I would have to agree with that..Billy's secret weapon is his right hand ..he plucks with four fingers instead of the usual three..and that's where ALL his "speed" comes from..weird how he doesn';t apply that with tapping..I've seen him tap with four fingers but he was doing the vulcan V sign and just tappin' an octave groove..I know hi style very well..and he loves to double strike trills on the some note with both hands..that's his trade mark....I can emulate him pretty well.

Is Mudvayne to "nu" for my taste or do you think I'll like them..I heard really good thing about the bassist..I see that guitarist a few year back with the red painted face and spiked hair..and just rolled my eyes..but maybe they are more than that..I guess..I'll give them a shot..for bass sake.

[Endrik]

Re: Bass Shredding

Hey Bill nice post [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I like you because you always can explain your arguments very well [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

You don't have to prove me anything bro, I belive you are awsome bass player, I belive you can nail all the great bass lines. But I would like to see your vid too tho, I like cool bass videos. In fact I like bass players and drummers more than most of the guitar players [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] they inspire me more because I'm pretty groovy guitar player. These days I care more about the rhythm, feel, groove etc. than sweep picked arpeggios and whatnot.

As far as Billy goes, he was just like Eddie, he did something that no one else did before. He isn't the most versatile player but still I like him a lot. Stuart Hamm studied in Berklee with Steve Vai and Chris Frazier, Billy played in the bars. If I would play in a technical fusion band I would take somone who could play like Hamm or Wooten.

But in a rock band I would take Billy over all the other players any time. His live tone sucks but he is very good at playing dynamics, he sounds tight like anal sex with the drums. That's what he did the most, he jammed with the drummers so the songs would sound tight. As far as his solos goes, well he is not the best slapper or 8 finger tapper but I like his staccatto a lot, and his bends and sqeuals and octave runs all that shit wich makes him a very unique player. That's what I like, a player who sounds very distinctive. And he looks cool on the stage, a true showman, and he his making fun all the time, also he is great songwriter. These things makes him the perfect rock bass player. That's what he is a rock player not funk or jazz. But also he is into that progressive shit, he has done some pretty cool and super weird stuff with Terry Bozzio who is my favourite drummer.

About Mudvayne, I would describe them as nu/prog/post-thrash band. Most of their hits sound more like nu, but most of their songs on their albums wich are not hits sound like prog. They have a shitty singer, a guitar player who doesn't really play solos but is a great rhythm player, some of the songs his riffs sound a lot a like Dime or whatnot. The drummer is pretty insane, he sounds like Vinnie Paul meets Thomas Haake, I remember that George Lynch said that Mudvayne's drummer would be in his perfect/dream band. The highlight of the band is the bass player Ryan, he is funk/jazz/fusion player with AMAZING tone. One thing I like about Mudvayne's records is that the bass is always loud.

Ok the music is pretty unique, no guitar solos but the bass is the solo instrument in that band not the guitar [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
A lot of their songs are full of polyrhythms, off beats, odd time signatures and all that prog shit. The drummer and the bass player do most of the work, they always do something technical. If the drummer does some off beats, solo breaks or whatnot then the bass player does some tapping, slapping, harmonic arpeggios or whatnot. They are like radio friendly Meshuggah I guess.

[horns666]

Re: Bass Shredding

Hmmm..Well I'm must say you hit the nail on the head of Billy..You know it's him as soom as you hear him..there is ONLY one Billy Sheehan...and yeah he's a rocker no doubt..and very unique..hell you know it's him in five seconds and immediately know it's Billy just like when hear Ed / Yngwie / Vai and etc....so yeah that's true.

Well I guess I must try some Mudvayne then..I will grab it in my travels..I didn't know they we kinds Proggy..well that's cool..and if they're anythig like you described I may like them..Dime without solos..Vinnie Paul style...and Meshuggah..hell I'm there..not all songs NEED solos...I have a couple that don't ..not if the song is busy itself like the bassline/guitar and whatever..sometimes you don't need solos. But I'm a sucker for great solo.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks E.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Endrik]

Re: Bass Shredding

Their best album is The End Of All Things To Come IMHO, the new one wasn't that good, some of the early stuff was pretty proggy too like the song Death Blooms.

I posted one songs from that album on the amp section some time ago.

Mudvayne - The End Of All Things To Come
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34...J0VLQMEDUP3TPI

This is not their technical-prog song but it's pretty cool, it sounds like Pantera

[TommyD]

Re: Bass Shredding

> I kind of have an oddball connection with Ripper,he used to live right around the corner from where my aunt lived in Kenmore,a suburb of Akron. The first time I saw anything about him joining Priest,they were doing a camera shot from the neighborhood,and saw my aunt's house plain as day. The next time I saw my aunt,I asked her if she knew anything about him or had heard of a neighborhood kid hitting it big,and she said they used to hear his band practicing when driving home. I have never met him,but I think my uncle Chris played in a band with him once. LeBron James,another Akron product,lived literally right across the street from my grandparents until he was 12. Tommy D.