hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[zeegler]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Yoyoyo, you be trippin' beeatch!

[buzzsaww]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[RobRR]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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Anyone so confident in their answer that the plane WONT take off, they would be willing to bet a guitar?

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I don't know enough about the physics of flight to say for sure. Howerver, I still think Lou is wrong about the skateboard on the checkout conveyor *if* the conveyor has the properties proposed in the original problem.

BTW, I asked a coworker that flies about this. Here's what he sent me:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191034-1.html

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That column just confirmed everything we have been saying. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Fragle]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

"Yoyoyo, you be trippin' beeatch! "
I'm the most badass motherfucker you've ever seen, bitch, I'm Rick James.... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

regarding the topic...i have NO idea. at first i was sure it won't take off, but now i'm not sure. i'll go and ask a bud of mine about it (physics master or whatever that shit is called)

[toejam]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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VitaminG ended this on page 1.

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Yeah, but he thinks we're talking about paper planes. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[guitarsjb]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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Let's send it to Mythbusters.

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Hell yeah!! That would be one to watch!! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[rjohnstone]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Man... people need to let it go already.
Admins... please lock this thread already.
Where's that "beat the dead horse" smiley when you need it.

And yea... it would be cool to watch them try and do it on Mythbusters. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[wulfe13]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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Anyone so confident in their answer that the plane WONT take off, they would be willing to bet a guitar?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know enough about the physics of flight to say for sure. Howerver, I still think Lou is wrong about the skateboard on the checkout conveyor *if* the conveyor has the properties proposed in the original problem.

BTW, I asked a coworker that flies about this. Here's what he sent me:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/191034-1.html

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Thanks for the link Tim! He actually mentioned this question exactly.

(from that link)
It was an interesting argument, but as things progressed, more rational heads prevailed, pointing out that the airplanes do not apply their thrust via their wheels, so the conveyor belt is irrelevant to whether the airplane will takeoff. One guy even got one of those rubber band powered wood and plastic airplane that sell for about a buck, put it on the treadmill someone foolishly donated to the Lounge years ago, thinking that pilots might actually exercise. He wound up the rubber band, set the treadmill to be level, and at its highest speed. Then he simultaneously set the airplane on the treadmill and let the prop start to turn. It took off without moving the slightest bit backwards.

[buzzsaww]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

invalid argument. that little $1 balsa plane has about a 1000000000000 to 1 thrust ratio.

[wulfe13]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

I just can't believe this thread is still going... Finally I started a thread that just won't quit... I feel special! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[hippietim]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

wulfe, it's not always a good thing to be a special person [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[wulfe13]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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invalid argument. that little $1 balsa plane has about a 1000000000000 to 1 thrust ratio.

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It doesn't matter! It proved the point! The question has nothing to do with thrust ratio! My point was that given enough thrust it could do it and without enough thrust it couldn't! I was correct... give me my physics degree!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[wulfe13]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

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wulfe, it's not always a good thing to be a special person [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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My teachers always said I was "special" too! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Ok, I'll take up Lou, Zeegs, and Rob on their offer - if I'm proven wrong, you can delete their accounts [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img]
Seriously, it ain't that important.

How bout we stop with the cop-outs like deleting accounts and asking the Admins to lock the thread.

Now look, while the wheels of a plane have no drive system of their own similar to an automobile, that does not totally negate their function in the entire system of motion for the plane. While the engines do provide the initial and primary thrust force needed to propel the plane forward, that forward motion action MUST be executed AT THE WHEELS (but not BY the wheels), since they are the only parts of the plane in physical contact with a restraint object (i.e. the conveyor, which in turn is touching the ground).

Regardless of thrust power, the wheels must turn along the runway for the plane to gain enough airflow across the wings to generate lift. While the speedometer attached to the wheels may read 500 MPH in the cockpit, the speed of the conveyor will also read AT LEAST 500 MPH as well. It's not that the drivetrain attached ot the wheels is spining them at 500 MPH, it's the thrusters. Regardless of where the forward-motion power comes from, the conveyor will always match the speed of the plane, so if the plane moves forward at +1 MPH, the belt compensates for that and the plane does not gain any ground.

The plane will not fly without airflow to generate lift.

ONLY if the conveyor is as long and wide as a real runway could there be enough airflow for liftoff, because the action of a belt that size moving towards the plane would cause a noticeable headwind. Once the proper level of airflow across the wings was achieved, even though the plane did not move forward any noticeable degree, it could achieve lift. Once it did rise, if the airflow was not enough to SUSTAIN lift, it would land again, or remain in a balanced state just above the belt.
Again, the speed of the belt matches the speed of the plane. Thus, if it CAN generate enough headwind, it will only generate enough headwind to keep the speed of the plane and the belt equally opposite.

[buzzsaww]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

given enough thrust anything could take off. that doesn't make it a plane.