hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[Big D]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

I gotta say, this is perhaps the best thread I've ever seen on this board. I can see the logic in both conclusions although I'm one of the guys who is pretty sure the plane will fly.

Now I think the way the original question was worded it was specifically designed to be a bit ambiguous and to create this kind of "debate". But either way, I'm pleasantly surprised at how many closet nerds there are on the JCF.

[SeventhSon]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[ QUOTE ]
I think it will take off. My pilot coworker explained one key thing to me that sort of puts it into perspective. Airspeed and ground speed are completely different. A plane can be flying just fine and be making little or no progress on the ground. So a plane flying 50 miles an hour into a 50 mile an hour wind is making no forward progress so the the ground speed is zippo. So it stands to reason that even if the plane is making no forward progress on the conveyor it can still fly. The props and jets are the things that pull the air thus causing flight.

Oh and Lou, you are still wrong about the skateboard on the mother of all compensating conveyors [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Tim, this doesn't have anything to do with airspeed vs. groundspeed. The plane will achieve sufficient airspeed/groundspeed to take off as if there were no conveyor belt. The same airspeed/groundspeed it would need to achieve to take off from a normal runway under the same weather conditions.

RobRR, Lou, Zeegs, Sandman, et. al., ...boys, you are the genii of the board. [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

Newc, Endrik, GOR, free your minds or forever remain the fucktard that I used to be! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[hippietim]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[bombtek]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Is it an African or European jet?

[guitarsjb]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

I'm sorry, but the plane CAN'T take off. When the thrust is applied to the engines..it moves the WHEELS...if the wheels are going in reverse at the same speed, they cancel each other out and NOTHING happens. The wheels ALLOW the plane to move forward. If it is on a conveyor (sp) belt (I imagine it to be just big enough to hold the plane) and the wheels are essentially NOT moving...no air can pass over the wings to give the plane lift. Hell, I don't know..sounds right to me [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[VitaminG]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[ QUOTE ]
THE PLANE WILL NOT TAKE OFF PERIOD.


I'm very good at physics, I was the best in my school, I've made tons of tests wich had WAY harder questions than this and most of the test results were at least 98% right.
This one is too easy, something harder please

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, you are right. Physics IS easy. And given that you by your own admission are very good at physics, I just can't argue my case anymore. There's just no arguing with the case you put forward. The flaws in my argument are now apparent to me and I can't refute the logic of your position. The strength of your conviction has turned my head around and I now agree that THE PLANE WILL NOT TAKE OFF PERIOD! [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/eyes.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[Top Jimmy B]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

This thread reminds me of the time Lemmiwinks got stuck in Mr Slave's ass and had to try and find his way out through a maze of shit & guts to answer a ridiculous riddle to finally be free.

I now have empathy for Lemmiwinks.

[vander]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

My two cents....If you can imagine a car on dino (or whetever they are called)...the car's engine may be full throttle and producing tons of energy. Strap two wings to the car...it won't go anywhere...no wind is moving over them.
Don't know if someone used this analogy already...I didn't read all 327 pages of this thread

[LouSiffer]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

And I still stand by my statement: If I am wrong, I will walk off this forum and never return. I know some people are praying to God I am wrong ,but, really.....do you think I would throw up an offer like this if I wasn't 110% sure? I have yet to see someone from the opposition make the same offer.

Again, since the wheels are a neutral, non-momentum driving force, the speed of the conveyor is completely irrelevant. The wheels are just a means by which the jets can be more efficient when pushing the plane forward. Nothing more....nothing less.

You know if Sully agrees.....then you can take it to the bank. Nice rubber duck theory by the way Sull....but, aren't you just a little old for that sort of thing? :P -Lou

[VitaminG]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

inappropriate analogy, vander. As has been stated on many occasions through this thread, a car is driven by its wheels whereas a plane is powered by its engines or prop. The power to move forward isn't transferred to the wheels or the ground on a plane. Put a plane on a dyno, fire up the engines/prop and see if you can get a reading on the dyno.

[SeventhSon]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[ QUOTE ]
My two cents....If you can imagine a car on dino (or whetever they are called)...the car's engine may be full throttle and producing tons of energy. Strap two wings to the car...it won't go anywhere...no wind is moving over them.
Don't know if someone used this analogy already...I didn't read all 327 pages of this thread

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the car *depends* on friction between the tires and the surface to propel itself forward. That is why the conveyor belt nullifies it. On a jet, the jet engine is the thrust. The wheels simply exist to reduce the friction between it and the surface it's resting on. If the wheels are performing its function properly, it doesn't matter if there is a conveyor belt.

Oh, a hats off to VitaminG as well...an early true believer!

[hippietim]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see someone from the opposition make the same offer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok Lou, you called me on it. So I'll step up to the plate. If I'm wrong, you're off the forum. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LouSiffer]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Phbtbtbtbtt [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] -Lou

[vander]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

Wheels and friction have nothing to do with either scenario..the bottom line is both are stationary..A guy with a hanglider strapped to him standing on a tarmac will not fly..unless the wind blows really hard. Hard wind won't lift a plane.
No way that thing goes anywhere. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Bert]

Re: hmmm.... physics question for you guys....

This thread is unbelievable. The plane is not stationary. The engines push it forward. Nothing (but a minimal amount of wheel friction) is pushing it back. It moves, it flies, it slices, it dices! Don't let this offer pass you by!