The end of tabs?

[Stelios]

Re: The end of tabs?

I can understand the publishers wanting to protect their material and their profits but the way I see it is that there is clearly a huge demand for these guiar tabs online. So why don't they make them legally available online?

Where are the legal guitar tab sites where I can download a tab for a small fee? Show me the way and I'll pay!

I've recently discovered power tabs and there are some great transcriptions there. Why don't the publishers do similar sites? The problem is that there doesn't appear to be a viable, legal alternative.

I don't mind paying. Just give me the chance to pay please!

[semagic]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
I can understand the publishers wanting to protect their material and their profits but the way I see it is that there is clearly a huge demand for these guiar tabs online. So why don't they make them legally available online?

Where are the legal guitar tab sites where I can download a tab for a small fee? Show me the way and I'll pay!

I've recently discovered power tabs and there are some great transcriptions there. Why don't the publishers do similar sites? The problem is that there doesn't appear to be a viable, legal alternative.

I don't mind paying. Just give me the chance to pay please!

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
I can understand the publishers wanting to protect their material and their profits but the way I see it is that there is clearly a huge demand for these guiar tabs online. So why don't they make them legally available online?

[/ QUOTE ]

Interestingly something similar happened a few years ago when emulators for old arcade games became popular. The SPA, the software industry's rough equivalent to RIAA, spent a lot of time squishing Internet distribution channels for dumped ROMs from old arcade boards. Fans whined that they'd pay but that no one was making the games commercially available. Sites moved offshore and, while not eliminated, became more and more difficult to find.

Then a strange thing happened: once rampant piracy was slowed and the degree of difficulty in obtaining pirated software had been raised somewhat a niche opened in the market. Now there are licensed versions of emulated classics in many formats. In effect the rampant piracy showed the industry demand in a market segment they'd been ignoring and the industry developed business models to allow small-time entrepreneurs to work this new niche market.

Tabs are in a similar spot right now as it would be difficult for a legitimate business to survive given the rampant nature of piracy in this segment. Like it or not the piracy has to be brought under control as a prerequisite to the formation of legitimate businesses, otherwise the pirates will just squeeze out the legitimate guys before they even get off the ground. It's more than a bit like treating the weeds on the lawn so they don't choke out the grass.

[metallicarocks]

Re: The end of tabs?

If this goes through, that means that cover bands will be prosecuted as well. Imagine that, you can't tribute your favorite band anymore.

[lerxstcat]

Re: The end of tabs?

r[ QUOTE ]
If this goes through, that means that cover bands will be prosecuted as well. Imagine that, you can't tribute your favorite band anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. Clubs have paid set fees to BMI and ASCAP for many years which are then distributed based on relative sales to the artists. So in this case piracy was addressed about 40 years ago.`

[ApeDosMil]

Re: The end of tabs?

"Unauthorised use of lyrics and tablature deprives the songwriter of the ability to make a living, and is no different than stealing," he said.

Sounds like their saying that if I learn a tab from so so band, I won't buy their cd because I can play the guitar part of the song!

What a bunch of crap.

I bet they would sue you if you hummed a song around people because they won't buy the cd then...

[lerxstcat]

Re: The end of tabs?

No, they're saying you won't buy THEIR tab book if you can get the tab free on the Internet. Tab books are typically $20-$30, so they have a point.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

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I bet they would sue you if you hummed a song around people because they won't buy the cd then...

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What sort of people and where are you doing the humming? If it's in a public place and the people aren't your normal circle of friends and family that'd be an unauthorized public performance ... unless of coure the performance took place in an establishment that had paid their annual licensing fees .... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

But seriously the publishers claim that free tabs take money away from artists because they do. Some portion of folks would buy tabs if they couldn't get them for free and some publishers would offer tab books of more obscure titles if they didn't have to compete with free alternatives. When free alternatives make it unprofitable for vendors to enter a market, vendors don't enter the market and that takes money out of artists pockets by preventing product from being developed/sold and royalties from being paid. Of course the artists get almost nothing and the publishers (like the record companies where the issue is recorded music) make nearly all of the money but it sounds better for them to defend artists rights than to defend their own interests.

[noodlesatf]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
No, they're saying you won't buy THEIR tab book if you can get the tab free on the Internet. Tab books are typically $20-$30, so they have a point.

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Fuck their point. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't see anyone trying to ban guitar playing because it enables you to steal music. I don't see anything in the Constitution saying that you have a right to make a profit without competition.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, they're saying you won't buy THEIR tab book if you can get the tab free on the Internet. Tab books are typically $20-$30, so they have a point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuck their point. A line has to be drawn somewhere. I don't see anyone trying to ban guitar playing because it enables you to steal music. I don't see anything in the Constitution saying that you have a right to make a profit without competition.

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It's found in Article I Section 8 which indicates that Congress has the power, "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." Note the use of the phrase "exclusive rights", that implies w/o competition.

[ApeDosMil]

Re: The end of tabs?

Ok, so all they can do is sue the people with tabs on the net because they have a book published, thats just popular shit than.

Doesn't really bother me as I don't really listen to mainstream music and don't learn too much 80's stuff that is tabbed out in books.

Its rediculas either way.

[metallicarocks]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. Clubs have paid set fees to BMI and ASCAP for many years which are then distributed based on relative sales to the artists. So in this case piracy was addressed about 40 years ago.`

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, I did not know that. Is that really piracy though? Most people that cover a song say who it is by, or at least I would. If not that, I would assume that people would know it was a cover.

So going by that fact, if you play a cover in a place that hasn't paid their dues to BMI and ASCAP you can get sued for piracy?

I'm a bit uneducated and confused on the whole topic of whom does the suing. I'm guessing it is the label, not necessarily the band, because isn't it the label that owns the copyright? I could be way off here, I would appreciate a little light. (Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread!)

[ApeDosMil]

Re: The end of tabs?

I think their is a "Fair Use Right" At least I remember something like that from my Business Law class.

[lerxstcat]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wrong. Clubs have paid set fees to BMI and ASCAP for many years which are then distributed based on relative sales to the artists. So in this case piracy was addressed about 40 years ago.`

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, I did not know that. Is that really piracy though? Most people that cover a song say who it is by, or at least I would. If not that, I would assume that people would know it was a cover.

So going by that fact, if you play a cover in a place that hasn't paid their dues to BMI and ASCAP you can get sued for piracy?

I'm a bit uneducated and confused on the whole topic of whom does the suing. I'm guessing it is the label, not necessarily the band, because isn't it the label that owns the copyright? I could be way off here, I would appreciate a little light. (Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully you play it well enough that they DO recognize it as a cover! [img]/images/graemlins/poke.gif[/img] No, it's the same idea as that an artist is due a royalty every time ther song is played on radio or TV. And I believe the club would get sued before a band would, but it's not impossible that bands would be named if
it was thought that the club couldn't be collected from (say if it was going under anyway).

The piracy is simply playing it or tabbing it without paying the royalty fees. The band and record company usually have some sharing of the publishing rights and copyright, so the record company would ususally file suit naming itself and the band as plaintiffs.

It's understandable that some don't want to pay for something they could get free before, but the artists and record companies are within their rights. If you were writing and publishing your own music you'd probably feel the same, although in the PC music environment you might be afraid to say so publicly. You'd probably blame it on the record company and let them do your dirty work, but take the royalty checks.

You could pony up and buy the tabs, or get some ear training so you can figure the stuff out without tab. Many of the web tabs are just someone's ear transcriptions anyway. If they can do it, so can you. It's not really that hard, and it improves your musicality.

[metallicarocks]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
Many of the web tabs are just someone's ear transcriptions anyway. If they can do it, so can you. It's not really that hard, and it improves your musicality.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you're right on that one. There are some songs out there that I just cannot hear the notes because they go by so fast! I could play the song, I have the chops, but I just can't pick out the notes for it. (ie Kissing the Shadows solo) Learning how to play a difficult song quickly is a good motivation for me. I'm too easily discouraged sometimes.

On the other side of the table, do tabs really matter or effect your income? I really don't think that bands or record companies are making too much off of tablature books. I really think it's them trying to squeeze out a few more dollars. I don't know about your area, but I don't see too many people buying tablature books around here.

I can see where it is wrong to go out and buy a tablature book and post it directly on the internet. That is definitely dicking over people that made the book. But sitting down, tabbing a song out for yourself and then posting it? I would label that like open-source code software. There could be mistakes all over, it's more or less a way to get through the song or perhaps pick out that part that you just couldn't quite understand.

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By the way, how does a person go about getting ear training? Is there a way to do it through books or CD's, as I doubt that anybody would offer such classes in my area. Any help on that would be appreciated.