WTF is going on in Chicago? Richard Daley=NAZI

[MBreinin]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

It is a disturbing trend for sure. This is how liberty is eroded, slowly through the pretense of protection. Baby steps that end up with a result many people claim they didn't see coming. It is a process of removing one'e sensitivity to a reduction of privacy rights. You start with cameras on the street, and end with them in your home.

Of course, you say this could never transpire. I say you are wrong, woefully wrong. Where did the Third Reich start? They started with simply registering the populace. They ended by marching people into gas chambers...many of those people were clueless as to what was transpiring, because something like that simply could not be possible in their minds.

The short term benefit of these camera programs might look bright, but the long term ramifications are scary. Whether these programs will pass constitutional scrutiny is immaterial at this point, because the erosion process is in full swing.

Mike

[JacksonRob]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

So how does everyone feel when the government asks/takes a DNA sample for identity purpose for EVERYBODY? Not just criminals, but everybody to be able to comply a DNA database. It will also be a matter of time until be have to have chips installed in us for identity, tracking, and the ease of a moneyless world? The future will 100% infringe on our lives. The cameras are just a start. Get used to it, we are all just rats in a cage and we have very little control over what we can really do about it.

Not to sound like a doom & gloom person.....

[SeventhSon]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
It is a disturbing trend for sure. This is how liberty is eroded, slowly through the pretense of protection. Baby steps that end up with a result many people claim they didn't see coming. It is a process of removing one'e sensitivity to a reduction of privacy rights. You start with cameras on the street, and end with them in your home.

Of course, you say this could never transpire. I say you are wrong, woefully wrong. Where did the Third Reich start? They started with simply registering the populace. They ended by marching people into gas chambers...many of those people were clueless as to what was transpiring, because something like that simply could not be possible in their minds.

The short term benefit of these camera programs might look bright, but the long term ramifications are scary. Whether these programs will pass constitutional scrutiny is immaterial at this point, because the erosion process is in full swing.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. The Third Reich came to power after the burning of the Reichstag and blaming it on the communists. After that, Hitler used that event to justify the elimination of fundamental civil liberties. Just like the current administration loves to invoke 9/11 and the war on terror to justify the elimination of fundamental civil liberties. Ever listen to our Attorney General justify the use of wiretaps on citizens without a warrant from the court? Freakin hilarious (and frightening).

[hippietim]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
I would never agree to the full and complete invasion of your life. Cameras in public places - or places competely open to the public are a different story. If you don't want someone to see you doing something - do it in your house with the doors closed and the shades drawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're OK with everything you do with the shades open being recorded?

[ QUOTE ]
The kind of things that are currently not illegal for anyone or even the government to do is really scary. I found out a lot of stuff when I was stalked and attacked by a serial rapist. The guy was able to run my license plates.

Like someone said - it's really easy to get information about anyone - in fact there are places that you can pay that will provide any living person's social security number.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, which is why I'm sort of surprised that you favor more information being captured about you. With cameras everywhere serial rapists, child molestors, and thieves will be able to monitor/stalk/case many more neighborhoods without the hassle of physically monitoring the locations like they do today. Only truly stupid or unlucky criminals will be detected and/or thwarted by these cameras - particularly if the cameras are clearly identified as was mentioned in this thread.

[Mrs Tekky]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would never agree to the full and complete invasion of your life. Cameras in public places - or places competely open to the public are a different story. If you don't want someone to see you doing something - do it in your house with the doors closed and the shades drawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're OK with everything you do with the shades open being recorded?

[ QUOTE ]
The kind of things that are currently not illegal for anyone or even the government to do is really scary. I found out a lot of stuff when I was stalked and attacked by a serial rapist. The guy was able to run my license plates.

Like someone said - it's really easy to get information about anyone - in fact there are places that you can pay that will provide any living person's social security number.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, which is why I'm sort of surprised that you favor more information being captured about you. With cameras everywhere serial rapists, child molestors, and thieves will be able to monitor/stalk/case many more neighborhoods without the hassle of physically monitoring the locations like they do today. Only truly stupid or unlucky criminals will be detected and/or thwarted by these cameras - particularly if the cameras are clearly identified as was mentioned in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

The purpose of these cameras is not capture more information about me. They are for monitoring the neighborhood - watching the activity. It's not just about me or any one individual. It is about the good of the community. If you all have this big of a thing with adding cameras to the streets, we should start a petition to get every convenience store, every business that uses cameras to montitor their premises to get rid of them. And you better tell your employer that you aren't going to badge in, log in, etc. because they may use that against you.

And at this point, neighborhoods with these cameras currently in use have seen a decrease in crime.

[MBreinin]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would never agree to the full and complete invasion of your life. Cameras in public places - or places competely open to the public are a different story. If you don't want someone to see you doing something - do it in your house with the doors closed and the shades drawn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're OK with everything you do with the shades open being recorded?

[ QUOTE ]
The kind of things that are currently not illegal for anyone or even the government to do is really scary. I found out a lot of stuff when I was stalked and attacked by a serial rapist. The guy was able to run my license plates.

Like someone said - it's really easy to get information about anyone - in fact there are places that you can pay that will provide any living person's social security number.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right, which is why I'm sort of surprised that you favor more information being captured about you. With cameras everywhere serial rapists, child molestors, and thieves will be able to monitor/stalk/case many more neighborhoods without the hassle of physically monitoring the locations like they do today. Only truly stupid or unlucky criminals will be detected and/or thwarted by these cameras - particularly if the cameras are clearly identified as was mentioned in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

The purpose of these cameras is not capture more information about me. They are for monitoring the neighborhood - watching the activity. It's not just about me or any one individual. It is about the good of the community. If you all have this big of a thing with adding cameras to the streets, we should start a petition to get every convenience store, every business that uses cameras to montitor their premises to get rid of them. And you better tell your employer that you aren't going to badge in, log in, etc. because they may use that against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, this argument is not going to fly.

You choose to submit to video surveillance when you enter a business that utilizes it. You do not have to frequent those establishments. You submit to logging in, punching in, etc. as requirements of employment.

However, you are not left with a choice when cameras are installed on the street, in the public domain.

Mike

[hippietim]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
The purpose of these cameras is not capture more information about me. They are for monitoring the neighborhood - watching the activity. It's not just about me or any one individual. It is about the good of the community.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that. How the cameras *should* be used is clear and the intent is honorable. How the cameras *will* be used is my concern.

[ QUOTE ]
If you all have this big of a thing with adding cameras to the streets, we should start a petition to get every convenience store, every business that uses cameras to montitor their premises to get rid of them. And you better tell your employer that you aren't going to badge in, log in, etc. because they may use that against you.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference here is that these are private establishments. They have signs that tell you that you will be monitored. As for my employer, I have gone toe to toe with our security folks before for stuff I was not comfortable with - things worked out just fine.

[Mrs Tekky]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
However, you are not left with a choice when cameras are installed on the street, in the public domain.


[/ QUOTE ]

The key word here is public domain. If you are walking down a public street - your actions are already public - there is no privacy to speak of.

And as for employers - I worked in the security area of a large firm - anything and everything you do is tracked - whether you know it or not. Your emails are read, and they can video tape you without your knowleged. And it's all legal.

And as for the whole business with a sign telling you - the cameras mentioned in the article at clubs - they will be identified - but everyone is still throwing a hissy.

At this point and time, it's easier for a criminal to find out everything about you than for the police to find and prosecute that criminal.

If people are this worried about someone knowing where they've been or what they did, you better stop using the internet, stop going to work, stop shopping in most any store, and don't get pulled over for a ticket - the police have cameras in their car. Don't use any discount cards or use the phone. It can all be accessed by just about anyone.

[horns666]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

Well being a retired Cop..

I'm all for this...It doesn't affect me..

I'm not up to no good ...so what do I care..

they can watch me take a dump or poke my wife if they want..I don't care really..I'd feel sorry for them if they did.

I think this will do more good than harm..

cameras don't lie..

just like when a bank/store gets violently robbed or a film of a abduction of a little girl that got raped and murdered..

Let 'em watch..and catch this human pollution in the act for ALL to see..

Well that's my theory..

I prolly in the minority here..but I live in a inner city..with lots of crime..maybe this will solve/curb it a bit..to me, that's a good thing!

Public Domain,,?? ..Well, the more a "criminal" knows about me..the less he'll want to do with me.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I know that's right! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

No Bill, it's really not...

[horns666]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

well I'm not concerned..I never have been..and I never will be..why worry over things you can't control..this being one.

I have enough already to worry about with the criminals in my face on a daily basis..that I can worry about...and can control!

I just don't care about this issue..

I just keep my nose clean..keep all my banking off line..or to a barest mimimum!

I don't trust people period..On line or in life..I handle myself accordingly.

I call it CYA..it's no diffent..none that I can see.

Not saying that anyone is wrong here..it's just that I don't care..I will give them as little as possible to care about...let em watch me..they'll be bored to death.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I just have to get one of those license plate camera blocker so this retired cop don't get his first traffic ticket in the last 20 years.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[fett]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

The United States has, historically (sp), been an open society. That was great when you had to walk across the border or take a 2 week boat trip. That was great when we had two oceans to insulate us from the "other's" problems. That ended with WWI. That way ended with WWII. That is when it all started!!!!. Our small world is all gone. Our benign acceptance of anyone that wants to come to our country ended with the spys; communists or whatever. Now, that there are "others" that have "come" into "our" world we have finally reacted like most countries have been doing for centuries. We have finally been threatened, big time. Now there are cameras everywhere. The only hope I have is the snoopers get the right guys. But............... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] There is going to be a Demo backlash in the mid-term elections. Good?????

[MBreinin]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, you are not left with a choice when cameras are installed on the street, in the public domain.


[/ QUOTE ]

The key word here is public domain. If you are walking down a public street - your actions are already public - there is no privacy to speak of.

And as for employers - I worked in the security area of a large firm - anything and everything you do is tracked - whether you know it or not. Your emails are read, and they can video tape you without your knowleged. And it's all legal.

And as for the whole business with a sign telling you - the cameras mentioned in the article at clubs - they will be identified - but everyone is still throwing a hissy.

At this point and time, it's easier for a criminal to find out everything about you than for the police to find and prosecute that criminal.

If people are this worried about someone knowing where they've been or what they did, you better stop using the internet, stop going to work, stop shopping in most any store, and don't get pulled over for a ticket - the police have cameras in their car. Don't use any discount cards or use the phone. It can all be accessed by just about anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Strange, you are both illustrating and missing the point. You cite all of these examples of where your privacy is being systematically infringed upon, and then you advance the argument that in comparison, these cameras are a relatively minor invasion. My point is not that these cameras won't serve a beneficial purpose, it is that these cameras are yet another enlargement of the core issue...our privacy is being slowly and systematically eroded in plain sight. This is a disturbing trend and one day we may wake up and live in a world we did not envision.

Mike

[horns666]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

I don't go outside anywhoo because of the human polltion I want on filmed on camera!..

They would have to put a camera in my house for me to be concerned. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

when they do that I may complain..maybe.

[MBreinin]

Re: WTF is going on in Chicago?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't go outside anywhoo because of the hukman polltion I want on film!..they would have to put a camera in my house for me to be concerned. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is my point. When that happens, it will be too late.

Mike