Opeth

[Endrik]

Re: Opeth

90% of people are into music with decent vocals

Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Van Halen, Michael Jackson, U2, Sheryl Crow, Birtney Spears, Foo Fighters etc.

all have decent vocals, people are not THAT stupid, they know what is good and what is bad

vocals are the most important things in the band, only a very few are into instrumental music

so IMHO the bands should first try to find a decent singer who really SINGS.

Good singing is a very musical and melodical element, bad singing or cookie monster vocals are like sloppy guitar playing, some find it cool, most of the people don't.

So bands who don't sing well aren't real bands in my book, because they miss the most important element of the band.

[jgcable]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
Apples and oranges here huh? VH was a great rock/party kinda band but the nusic, band type, etc. cant even be compared with a band like Opeth. Musically Opeth is on an entirely different level.
Chris

[/ QUOTE ]

I never compared Opeth to VH but since you brought it up.... I agree. There is no comparison.
VH has (or had).....
Possibly the most influencial guitarist who has ever lived. He literally changed the way guitar is played forever. He is a living legend.
Possibly the most talked about revered frontman in the history of metal/hard rock. DLR is a living legend too. I think DLR actually means STYLE because he had it.
A rhythm section that was virtually unchallenged in regards to tightness and MA's backup vocals. Jeez...
Did I forget the TONS OF HIT SONGS that crossed over into every genre of music.
What about the video's??? They had some of the best music video's ever.
Another thing. What about all the replacement frontmen they had.
Sammy Hagar (an incredible song writer, performer and singer)
Gary Cheron from Extreme.. nuff said.
These guys were bashed when compared to DLR. These three guys are all incredible frontmen and most importantly... SINGERS.
Now. Lets compare them to Opeth. Not for the genre, but rather for the contributions.

I rest my case.

Now it sounds like I am bashing Opeth and I didn't intend to but when somebody mentions Opeth and VH in the same sentence it just doesn't seem proper.

[Endrik]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
Well i never said that the vocals in death metal suck. They fit the music and that's what's important. Really do you think that a 80's voice would fit into death metal ? I sure don't !
Actually you never know if those guys all can't sing. I mean just because you play slow on guitar doesn't mean you can't play fast. The same with those guys. They prefer to do cookie monster vocals. Maybe some of them can sing, who knows ?

And have you really listened to death metal ? There are some very talented guitar players in death metal bands. For example Moyses from Krisiun, Muhammed from Necrophagist, the guys from Cannibal Corpse, Trey from Morbid Angel. Saying those guys can't play is simply ignorant. Will they kick Ratt's ass at 80's metal ? Definitely not. Will Ratt kick their asses at death metal ? Also definitely not. It all comes down to what you are doing best.

Flo

[/ QUOTE ]

if a death metal band can't fit normal sining into it's music then they are weak arrengers, that's it.
and as far as those guitar players go, I don't care, singing is more important, if I want good guitar then I listen to Van Halen or Whitesnake.
The fact is that the best guitar players ALWAYS play in bands with decent singers.
Yeah some death metal guy can play lead but so what, guys like John Sykes are better anyway.

[Endrik]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apples and oranges here huh? VH was a great rock/party kinda band but the nusic, band type, etc. cant even be compared with a band like Opeth. Musically Opeth is on an entirely different level.
Chris

[/ QUOTE ]

I never compared Opeth to VH but since you brought it up.... I agree. There is no comparison.
VH has (or had).....
Possibly the most influencial guitarist who has ever lived. He literally changed the way guitar is played forever. He is a living legend.
Possibly the most talked about revered frontman in the history of metal/hard rock. DLR is a living legend too. I think DLR actually means STYLE because he had it.
A rhythm section that was virtually unchallenged in regards to tightness and MA's backup vocals. Jeez...
Did I forget the TONS OF HIT SONGS that crossed over into every genre of music.
What about the video's??? They had some of the best music video's ever.
Another thing. What about all the replacement frontmen they had.
Sammy Hagar (an incredible song writer, performer and singer)
Gary Cheron from Extreme.. nuff said.
These guys were bashed when compared to DLR. These three guys are all incredible frontmen and most importantly... SINGERS.
Now. Lets compare them to Opeth. Not for the genre, but rather for the contributions.

I rest my case.

Now it sounds like I am bashing Opeth and I didn't intend to but when somebody mentions Opeth and VH in the same sentence it just doesn't seem proper.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually I brought that up and I agree VH [img]/images/graemlins/fart.gif[/img] Opeth [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Infernal Death]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
90% of people are into music with decent vocals


[/ QUOTE ]

Well you seem to miss the point of death metal. It's music from the underground for the underground (as cheesy as this may sound). Death Metal bands give a shit what probably 99% of all the people on this world think about their music. I don't care if i am one of 10 people worldwide who likes a band. If i like them that's all that is important to me.

Flo

[toejam]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
Actually you never know if those guys all can't sing. I mean just because you play slow on guitar doesn't mean you can't play fast. The same with those guys. They prefer to do cookie monster vocals. Maybe some of them can sing, who knows ?


[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly! Take Chuck Billy from Testament... he can really sing very well, but he, IMO, is the best death metal singer when he wants to do that style.
Typical death metal bands, we don't really know, but I'm sure George from Cannibal Corpse can sing pretty well in a normal voice if he wants to. He mentions on the DVD that came with The Wretched Spawn cd how he got into singing was just singing along to whatever he was listening to. But death metal is not pretty, so the lyrics/vocals should go along with the brutal music.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Opeth

Yeah, Slayer just wouldn't get the point across if John Mathis was singing for them ya know, haha...

[Endrik]

Re: Opeth

bad singing is more homo, the prettier you sing the more chicks you get

[toejam]

Re: Opeth

Come on, there's plenty of chicks into death metal. I'm not saying that they're all sane, but there's plenty of chicks into that type of music. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Chrisb]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you have to make a connection with that type of vocal style. I can't.
Its ashame too.. because I like the music.
I went to see Shadows Fall and the music was killer. The playing was killer. The show was killer. The vocals made me want to jump up onstage and deck the lead singer. Good thing Judas Priest was the headliner. Halford made me forget about Shadows Fall with his first word.
Call me old fashioned but I think that a singer should be required to actually sing once in a while.
The guy from Mudvayne sings. Show does the guy from Killswitch Engage and they still scream a bunch.
I guess death metal is different.
Bottom line.. if death metal requires that kind of vocal style its not for me. Damn them though for writing good songs with killer riffs.


[/ QUOTE ]
Seems you didn't listen to very much of it or you would have heard that the singer is actually a good singer in his own right. The vocals are not always cookie. Depends on the album the quantity. But the most recent album has alot of clean singing. And the acoustic album (not really acoustic) has all clean singing. So I don't know what cd you listened to but if you only listened to one track and tossed it out the window well I'd say shame on you.

I don't like cookie vocals, I have never liked cookie vocals yet I like Opeth and I love Orphaned Land. Because they both utilized alot of clean singing (Orphaned Land moreso) and both are fantastic musicians. For me vocals are only one piece of the music, they don't make or break a band for me. If anything they are one of the least important parts. The music comes first and the vocals are just a small part of that.

Point is if you like Killswitch I would think you would like Opeth. My guess is either you heard an early album where they were more straight up death or listened to the first track on of their more progressive cds that had no clean vocal sections and just decided based on that you didn't like it. If its the former I understand if its the latter then well..

Check out Orphaned Land.They mix clean and growl vocals better than any band in existance. They aren't as low as Opeth (in terms of the growling).

Though I think this whole DLR line of discussion is ridiculous I will say this. DLR was a charismatic frontman but he was a pretty crappy singer. You can defend him all you want but defense of him because he is charismatic is no different than people defending death metal singers for "keeping with the style of their music".

[ QUOTE ]
The kid on American Idol did it as a joke, and he sang a punkish song with a crappy inversed scream to make it more annoying.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure he was serious (not about getting through but about his singing). That type of music is called Screamo from what I understand (Screaming + Emo=Screamo?).

[blindmuddy]

Re: Opeth

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apples and oranges here huh? VH was a great rock/party kinda band but the nusic, band type, etc. cant even be compared with a band like Opeth. Musically Opeth is on an entirely different level.
Chris

[/ QUOTE ]

I never compared Opeth to VH but since you brought it up.... I agree. There is no comparison.
VH has (or had).....
Possibly the most influencial guitarist who has ever lived. He literally changed the way guitar is played forever. He is a living legend.
Possibly the most talked about revered frontman in the history of metal/hard rock. DLR is a living legend too. I think DLR actually means STYLE because he had it.
A rhythm section that was virtually unchallenged in regards to tightness and MA's backup vocals. Jeez...
Did I forget the TONS OF HIT SONGS that crossed over into every genre of music.
What about the video's??? They had some of the best music video's ever.
Another thing. What about all the replacement frontmen they had.
Sammy Hagar (an incredible song writer, performer and singer)
Gary Cheron from Extreme.. nuff said.
These guys were bashed when compared to DLR. These three guys are all incredible frontmen and most importantly... SINGERS.
Now. Lets compare them to Opeth. Not for the genre, but rather for the contributions.

I rest my case.

Now it sounds like I am bashing Opeth and I didn't intend to but when somebody mentions Opeth and VH in the same sentence it just doesn't seem proper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt the one originally bringing VH into this but since you were only able to listen briefly you probably cant compare the 2. Britney Spears has had more hits than Opeth too. Does that make her MUSIC better? I love VH with Dave but comeon comparing the music is like comparing a pop band (which is what VH was) with a band like King Crimson or Yes. And BTW VH sucks without Dave. It's 2 different things. And since you brought up the rhythm section. That's a joke. Opeths rhythm section puts those guys to shame. And Aakerfelds clean vocals are easily as good as any singer VH has had. Maybe give Damnation a listen. Totally mellow no cookie monster or nothin.
Chris

[sevser]

Re: Opeth

jgcable...Give it one more chance...

Suggested Opeth listing:

Ghost of Perdition...The first clean vocal breakdown sends chills...My 14 year old Daughter said to me a while ago..."That part of the song is perfect" Lyric: "Devil cracked the earthly she..." That part. Then the "Winding ever higher" That is vocal mastery!

Also, check out "Isolation Years" also off “Ghost Reveries” disc. All clean.

Any other suggestions?

PS...As Toejam mentioned…Chuck Billy has one of the best metal voices on Earth. Deep and aggressive...Some try but few can really do it. Those who can actually project their voice. The ones that sound like crap are actually very quiet.

[img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[hippietim]

Re: Opeth

i can't stand the cookie monster vocals. whenever i hear that stuff i just laugh. i can't take it seriously. they sound like a defective Tickle Me Elmo doll. Grrr... Gaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....... Please. Give me a break. That's just retarded. And what cracks me up is the hard core metal guys that say Rap isn't music. Bwhahahaha...

At the same time John, a good bit of the 80's vocals were sissified drivel. Def Leppard, Warrant, etc. i hated that stuff then and i still can't stand it. They sounded like a working Tickle Me Elmo doll. Even Dokken was walking a fine line for me - his voice was so weak compared to the band.

I'll say this, the death metal bands sure do create much more interesting music than a lot of those hair metal bands did in the 80's.

I've found a happy in between place with bands like Annihilator, Nevermore, Pantera, etc. - they deliver the goods with some agressive vocals and killer music.

And to the DLR detractors [img]/images/graemlins/eviltongue.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Opeth

I agree with alot of what you said Tim. I like the music. I just can't handle the vocals.
The music certainly is interesting though. Maybe I have to listen to this stuff more to get a feel for it.

[VitaminG]

Re: Opeth

jg, it's been said a bunch of times in this thread already, but I'm gonna agree with a lot of the responses here directing you to Opeth's Damnation album. Not a growl in sight on the whole disc. It will allow you to hear what the band is capable of without being distracted by the vocals.

And they really do balance between clean & death vox really well. I mentioned here a couple of months ago how I was in the yard doing some gardening with Opeth's new album Ghost Reveries playing. My 11 year old daughter came up to me while a sweeping almost orchestral passage was playing and said something like "Now I get why you like these guys. They have really heavy parts, but they also play really beautiful parts too."

Check out Damnation. Even if you never buy another Opeth CD, that one is worth having