Help with getting better/timing

[Crusher]

Hey guys,

Been playing about 4 years. Play mostly hard rock/metal. Played in a couple of original bands but never lasted more than 4 months for various reasons. I had the opportunity to audition for an established Metal band over the weekend (CD about to be released, play 2 gigs per month). They told me which songs to learn about a week before. I went in prepared and with the right attitude, but couldn't play any of the material at the right speed.

They told me that I know the riffs well, but my timing was off and that I should practice with a metronome or drummer and try to stay in sych. with the drummer. I still can't for the life of me figure out what this means. I even started taking drum lessons a few months back to help me with the drummers point of view and keeping time and whatnot. When I practice drums, I play with the metronome and know when to hit the snare/bass drum etc. And it has helped me with how to properly count notes and tempo changes, etc. But when I'm playing guitar, I get totally lost. They did ask me to come back next week for another tryout and I don't want to blow this chance.

The other guitar player said that I know how to play the riffs and it sounds like I play them on my own, which is true 99% of the time, but I always try to learn the riffs first, then play along with the CD. I have one of those guitar trainers that slows the CD down so you can play along at your own pace, then speed up as you get better. However, when I play along with the CD, I hardly ever hear the drums, I'm really listening for the guitar parts and vocal cues for the changes. I'm at the point now where I can't speed up to full speed, I'm stuck at -16 on the trainer, I don't know what that is in real seconds, maybe half a second slow, I don't know.

Any suggestions other than give up guitar? Not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but it is incredibly frustrating, especially when I put a lot of time in and don't seem to be progressing at all.

Thanks

[sonicsamurai]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

get a metronome set to the bpm of the song....let it tick, practice to it...if you couldn't play along it might be they were playing faster than on the record...always try play something beyond what you need to play it...that way your always comfortable in the normal speed....if you can't hear the drums, unplug your guitar and play it clean...don't force it just practice it a bit along with other stuff...perhaps you need to play more stuff of a similar tempo if your hands are not used to this speed...? also i never use a speed trainer..its too gradual and i don't think your hands notice at all - i just throw myself in and hamer it out...u never get it the first time, but by the third/ fourth time u get a lot better...but like i say don't force it - if you phyically can't do it put the guitar down..play smething else, come back to it

[sonicsamurai]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

hope that helps...the trouble wth a speed trainer is you only set it as fast as you want to go..its almost like a mental block...you just have to put that away and push yourself over the edge

[Fragle]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

dude, you HAVE to figure out how the drum beat the drummer is playing relates to the guitar parts.
let's say he's playing that typical thrash metal kick-snare-kick-snare pattern. listen to the cd and figure out which notes are supposed to fall on the kick, or if you can make out any notes that fall on the snare which can "guide" you through that riff. also listen to cymbals.
i do have a decent sense for timing, but nevertheless i used to have similar problems. i always listened to the guitar when playing along with the cd, and live i HAD to hear the other guitar in order to stay in time.
what i did was rehearsing only with the drummer, which forced me to be TIGHT with the drums being the only reference. needless to say, nowadays i don't give shit about the monitor mix, i just need to hear the kick and/or the snare, period.
of course, all this stuff ´doesn't matter if you can't play the riffs up to speed. if you know the notes, my best advice is to pick up a metronome, set it to the speed of the song, and PRACTICE.
also, as samurai said, ditch the whole amp/distortion thing....just play unplugged, and try to LISTEN to the beat rather than focusing on playing the riffs. if you gotta focus on the riffs you can't play them yet, period.

[Fragle]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

ah, and btw, if the band's playing their stuff faster than on CD, you better get used to that, regardless of the band you'll be playing in [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Stinkbug]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

I agree with both of the previous recommendations. Use a metronome is old standby and listen for where you should be in relation to the drums. I tend to play to different drums (snare, kick, tom, high hat...) depending on the riff or song. I am not sure if other peopel do that as well. I have watched videos of my bands I have been in and some times my body movements don't match the obvious rhythm, but I am on time. It just looks off because of what I am using to cue off of.

[Ace]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

You gotta build up your speed and confidence. And that comes from doughnuts. Sorry, I mean practice. That comes from practice.

And try a drum machine as opposed to an actual metronome. I can jam all day to a drum machine but a metronome just drives me crazy. Like a woodpecker beakin' me in the ear!!

[OnlineStageGear]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

When you are playing at home or jamming with a whole band, no matter what instrument you are on, even the singer, always try and tap your foot along with the music. That helps you stay in sync with everyone and helps you come back in time during breaks. Unless it's a 5 minute smoke/beer break [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Matt

[Ace]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

If we take a 5 minute smoke/beer break I jump behind the drum kit and keep going!

[fett]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

If you listen to AC/DC Live and play with it, you have done it. This, to me, is the most syncrod music ever. And I am 55. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[SeventhSon]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

I much prefer playing with a drum machine (or a drummer) as well. But a lot of bassists + steve vai will say that the metronome is what really develops your sense of timing.

Here's an interesting thread on talkbass.com. Have a look at the post by Wrong Robot. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227573

I don't know if this is your thing or not, but smoking weed helps a lot IMO. Flame away my straight brethren!

Probably not your thing, but swing 16th note rhythms like in hip hop (i generally disklike the music, but love the bass lines) sound really, really bad if you don't have the timing down, but when you nail it, you feel like you are the next Bootsy Collins. There is no middle ground and nothing can cover your mistakes. There are some cool swing 16th note patterns for the drums that you should ask your drum teacher for.

edit: actually something that will help you a lot that you might really enjoy is this: Playing Funky Rhythm Guitar

[zeegler]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

Everyone calls me the human metronome. I don't know if I am naturally gifted with awesome timing, or if it just came through practice, but it's the one thing that I am known for musically. I'm not a fantastic lead player, but I'm like a fucking nuclear clock.

One thing you MUST do, is practice slow AND fast. Practice all kinds of different speeds over and over and over again. It doesn't have to be complicated, just repetitive.

I second the weed thing too. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ace]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

[ QUOTE ]
One thing you MUST do, is practice slow AND fast.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what practicing with a metronome is supposed to cure!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

+2 on the weed thing.

[zeegler]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One thing you MUST do, is practice slow AND fast.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that what practicing with a metronome is supposed to cure!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean at the same time you bonehead! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[SeventhSon]

Re: Help with getting better/timing

crusher, don't get frustrated. a large percentage of the technique posts in the bass forums are about developing better timing...very similar to your post. there is no magic bullet. some people have perfect pitch. some people have a perfect sense of time. but most other mortals like me have to work at it and it's not easy.

it's as hard a musical journey as harmony/melody but equally important. i would say it's even more important. you can hit wrong notes, but if you are grooving, it almost always sounds good. if you play the right notes, but you're phrasing is off, it usually sounds bad.