ok, i need some advice here...

[Fragle]

"Ya got two days to watch the drums get tracked"
?
drum tracking: sept 6th-12th
return from spain: sept 15th

[zeegler]

wtf? a guy who plays like Slayer can play more solos? that is seriously fucked up shit

Well it depends on what your going for doesn't it. Imagine a Slayer song with Yngwie playing lead. That would sound gayer than hell!

[charvelguy]

ahh initially I believe you said it rec started on the 4th...I see that was my mistake..your trip starts on the 4th.
ok.. coffee.

[Endrik]

Well it depends on what your going for doesn't it. Imagine a Slayer song with Yngwie playing lead. That would sound gayer than hell!

now way, Yngwie could dance mamba and it still would be cool

anyway, i'm pretty sure that most of the people would dig Fragle's leads more than Slayer-ish wankery, it would bring more listeners. More players would be into it, even if they wouldn't care about the music, they maybe enjoy the leads.

[lerxstcat]

It sounds like you can do both the trip, and recording afterward. Sounds like the drums and other guitarist will be busy until after you're back anyway. You would just be sitting there watching the other guys, and may end up doing that anyway. It sounds like they're basically offering to let you do a few tracks if they have time. Well, vocals and lead solos usually go into overtime, and you may well get bumped. Be ready for that, because if you complain when it happens, you could jeopardize your position in the band.

Regarding leads, whether Fragle is the better lead player is beside the point. The ESTABLISHED guy who's been there for 3 CDs is the lead player. Try to threaten that position, Fragle could be out for that too. Since you raised that as an issue, Fragle, I'd just ask the band how they feel. They probably don't care if you're in-studio watching the rest of 'em track parts or not, as long as you're there later for any parts you may get to do.

I know the band is the most important to you, but the trip should also be, and the band may actually lose respect for you if you blow off your school trip to sit in the studio like a puppy begging for crumbs.

I would casually say, "Looks like you won't need me before the 16th when I'll be back, so unless you object, I'm off on my grad trip!" If they really insist that you stay, then you better be getting to do some tracks!

[xenophobe]

Take the trip.

Come back, lay some tracks, even if you have to pay the extra studio time. You're a guitarist, you don't need to be there for setup, scratch tracks, etc... and chances are, the way the band appears to be treating you, or at least the guitarist, you won't be doing anything buy laying tracks after they're done anyways. Take the trip.

[Fragle]

ok, this is the other band member's position on me laying down tracks:
my bass player doesn't have any influence at all. right now the drummer and other guitar player are seriously thinking about looking for replacement because of personal issues between him and the guitar player.
my singer definitely wants me to do some stuff, and he's been in the band long enough and is such a good singer (last album he layed down his vox in 1 1/2 days, no problem - try that in a thrash band!) that he can fight the other guitar player anytime without jeopardizing his position at all, so he's got some influence.
my drummer thinks that i should arrange the whole thing with the other player, who takes which solo and how many of em and stuff. depending on what i come up with during pre production, he'll definitely want me to do some leads. if my stuff happens to suck (which i doubt....man does this sound cocky) he'd say NO and so be it. he's the unofficial band leader.
and well, then theres the other guitar player. he really is the root of all problems in this band. i don't wanna go into detail right now, but lets just say that my singer almost quit because of him, and both the former guitar player and the former bass player left because of him, so go figure. as far as me playing leads is concerned, i've yet to talk to him about it...actually i haven't had a conversation with him that was longer than 2 minutes, so once again go figure....btw, he claims that he's got no problem, and that he'd get along with me well.....asshole

btw, regarding overtime....well, i guess we won't have this problem. after main gtrs and drums are done we've got 2 weeks left for vox, bass, and leads, and another week or so for mixing. time shouldn't be an issue i think

[lerxstcat]

Hmmmm.... well, if the lead guitarist's position is shaky, that adds another dimension. If they dig you and your playing, if the guy got canned you'd be promoted to Lead guitarist? (We hope - no fringers-crossed graemlin! ) That would change everything, because if that happened I'd sacrifice the trip to consolidate your improved role. You don't want the new guy squeezing past you to get that spot.

Hopefully the current lead guy will last long enough for you to take the trip, and THEN get canned. But if he gets canned BEFORE the trip, I think you have to put the band first.

[charvelguy]

I don't see the other guitarist being canned as 'in the pic' or situation with a window at this point of the short term.. it depends on who's penning the material and where the rights fall on the songs, but I doubt they'd let the guy go given he's a major contributor to the songwriting unless he did something to really compromise his slot.

I'd say Fragle has a good shot with the singer on his side.. so no worries.. definitely discuss this with the other guitarist and work out a solid idea of what your roles will be but not letting attitudes get in the way of what is being contributed artistically.
If the other guy does something well and his style of it fits the song.. be open to compromise and maybe the same will turn your way(hopefully). Sounds like the other guy wants to have artistic control w/o compromise as does the singer to a degree and that is where all this hardship in band conflict arises...which can cause alot of bands to have turnover and splits.

From the band and production standpoint.. the main focus is going to be how well you do and sound when the red light goes on in the slots predetermined...which can add a fresh element and dimension over the other guitarist and the last guy. You may even get more than you asked for out of it and more opportunity opens itself up if they really like what you do. That will be up to the ears in the end, and majority rules when considering the opinion of the producer (who gets paid to be objective)
So his say & the singers will likely win out on that in the long run.

It sounds like you are confident enough to pass muster on that...so just come back refreshed and not totally crisp from partying for two weeks, being psyched to kick some ass.

[mattsmusiccenter]

Do them both if possible! Change some dates around if you have to. I've done loads of recording and loads of travel... my memories of backpacking through Europe and Australia will stay with me till I drop dead. But I have a bunch of real high caliber studio recordings of my bands that are priceless to me as well.

[lerxstcat]

Yeah, my bad. I misread the bass player, "canned" and Fragle's statement that the guitarist is the source of band tensions, and got mixed up.

[Fragle]

oh man, i just don't get it....
after i talked to my drummer i decided to do the trip and afterwards head to the studio.
well, today i found out that 5 people in our group (75 btw) are not doing the trip....ok, one of em has a good reason (no money), but the other 4 just "don't want to"....kinda makes me wonder whether it's my priorities that are somewhat messed up (missing out on the studio to take the trip), or theirs (canning the trip for two weeks of...nothing)

[lerxstcat]

The other 4 may also not have the money, but are saying they don't want to because some people don't like to admit they don't have money. Take the trip, no guilt, have fun, and come back refreshed to do some tracks.

The other guitarist will probably also be more comfortable without you there watching his every move - and he probably wouldn't admit that either. I'd take the trip and come back ready to play.

[IrfaanSE801]

The other 4 may also not have the money, but are saying they don't want to because some people don't like to admit they don't have money. Take the trip, no guilt, have fun, and come back refreshed to do some tracks.

The other guitarist will probably also be more comfortable without you there watching his every move - and he probably wouldn't admit that either. I'd take the trip and come back ready to play.

+1 Sounds like a good plan