Ok, I must have been living under a rock

[Inazone]

I was raised Lutheran, went to Lutheran schools until college, and still define myself as Lutheran. However, I've found myself caring less and less about the debate over the Earth's creation. And here is why:

The Bible is the account of *human* history on *Earth* and mankind's relationship with God. I'm one of those "nut jobs" who believes in intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, and find it absurd to limit such countless possibilities through our very incomplete historical accounts and scientific theories. It has already been proven that long-held scientific "explanations" about the requirements for sustaining life has we know it do NOT hold up when observing various creatures living deep in the ocean. How could human notions, limited to our immediate surroundings and recorded experiences, hope to explain the mysteries of the universe? Imposing human limitations and "requirements" on things we haven't even discovered yet - including God or the higher power(s) of your choice - is the ultimate in human arrogance IMHO.

Two events strike me as being deal-breakers when trying to explain the extinction of various species, and possibly geological formations also: the flood (Bible account) and the scientific findings suggesting one or more major comet/meteor collisions with Earth. Those are starting points for a whole new discussion, but if the human race was extremely centralized from Adam's time to Noah's (even allowing for other civilizations branching off during that time), many things could have happened elsewhere on Earth during those thousands of years without affecting human existence.

[toejam]

All religions are cults... your'e all brainwashed!!!! :ROTF: :ROTF:

[FusionFarmer]

I think I'll put more faith in Carbon 14 dating than a monks calculations. Most people use religion to try to make sense of the basic questions "where did come from' and what happens to me when I die" the seemingly most likely scenario of "you're dead you're dead, end of story", is not too appealing and the idea of an after life sounds like a more acceptable concept.

[fr0sty]

And what about evolution? I don't know if I can get onboard with that whole thing either. I mean, if man evolved from apes, why are there still apes?!?

Humans did not evolve from apes. Humans and apes did share a common ancestor at some point in their evolutionary past.

[Shawn Lutz]

I haven’t read all the replies but here's my take religion and spirituality, bare in mind I'm an average joe, not a scientist nor an evangelist.

You can't be blinded by science and faith. You have to see both sides of the coin. The universe is a huge place and has been around longer than a lot religion cares to believe. Truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter to us right here and now Science and faith are different and everything cannot always be explained scientifically...ask medical doctors about miracles and they may or may not call them that but they are....

Religion is a personal thing to me and I'll take my chances on my afterlife. I read the bible every couple years. I do believe in Jesus Christ and the New Testament and that I'll be forgiven for my sin if I ask nicely, treat people how I want to be treated blah...blah...blah... I understand that some interpretations are twisted along a long the way. I don't go to church but I do pray everyday. I've been so turned off by hypocrisy and monetization of organized religion I keep my relationship between myself and God mostly private. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'll take my chances.

Heaven as we seem to know may in fact be very different. We hare here to learn to love and be compassionate towards all forms of life and move on to the next level. The level you go to next depends on how you live your life here. There many mansions in Gods Kingdome. Yeah Yeah I know some will think I'm a nutsack but I don't really care

People get so turned off by religion because people always try to force feed their beliefs onto others and judge them if they don’t follow their path to spirituality...or they think of themselves as being better and that is just so totally wrong.

[zeegler]

All religions are cults... your'e all brainwashed!!!! :ROTF: :ROTF:

I like you Joe, you are a smart fella.

[horns666]

Disclaimer..."scathing" Bill Z Bub post...DO NOT READ if you believe!!!

That's right, I don't take chances..I go with what I know..So, with that said.

I do know this..

To be "Christ-like" is truly masochistic and impossible..there are many that deprive themselves of humanistic joys in an attempt not to "sin"..Man must have the need to be "punsished" and "rewarded"..So they invented 2000 theories of various pipe dream, white light based, faiths and Gods..

JC was hiding in caves like the Taliban ..it took 30 pieces of Silver to buy our so called "Salvation"..

Salvation...where?..do we not still die and require "redemption" to enter heaven before and after this divine sacrifice..

30 peices of silver to roll over on the Christ..wow..what a savior!

I'm the only one that controls my life and destiny. Without a "god" or "scapegoat" to blame or rely on, I'm accountable and responsible for my own actions..the bad along with the good ..I try to do "good" for my own and family's best interest..not anyone else's...especially nobody you can't talk to, touch, see, smell or feel..and demands so much "uncondtional love"!

So, I indulge and enjoy in the only life that ANY of us TRULY know exists without manufactured "guilt" or "sin"..

Since "God made man in his own image"..Then that means..To know man is to know God..

I got to truly KNOW man and the aftermath they leave behind thru the years in my profession...therefore I don't trust or have the need for either.

God's Law requires our misery here on Earth ..due to his law of "free agency"..

From the dawn of the first humans..Man has been swimming in his own blood due to God's will of "free agency"..and we will drown in that blood...ummm thanks God??!!!

This is God's will..but it is not mine!

Cool, if you choose to worship such a God..I'll think it's silly..but I will respect that choice...but only if I respect you.

You see, both good people and total fucktards believe in this God dude..and both think they are going to be with him in the afterlife..for all eternity...cool, now God gets to assfuck me for eternity in his precious Heaven instead of a few miserable years on earth...wow, where do I sign??!!

Oh.."Faith" is it??..you mean silly superstitions and traditions that were passed on for 2000+ years ..never to be challenged by the likes of my silly ass..I'm sorry I lost the faith blinders when I became a cop!

It's really hard to have this "faith" and "believe" that GOD actually gives a flying fuck when your pulling dead babies from dumpsters or holding the hand of a dying 7 year old tortured rape victim..or getting your ass kicked or shot at on a daily basis..or washed out in a Tsunami...Thanks God, can we have more!!!!

Yeah, Please do me a huge favor will you..when and if you see your God..tell him that Bill Zurlo said "FUCK OFF"!!!

I would greatly appreciate it!

Here's my "law".. be good and true in your heart and mind, treat others the way they treat you, and die with dignity...because there is no soul or "heaven" to speak of..stop wasting time "praying" and use that time "doing".

OH Bill, MUST you Blapheme so...????

YES, just as it is YOUR job to praise Christ, it is MY job to discredit him!!

BTW..We ALL Die..don't be afraid..no need to make up stories or believe in them to comfort that fear..but if you require this "comfort"..go for it!

[horns666]

For the love of all things stinky ..I think I just killed God and this thread!:ROTF:

[Inazone]

Bill, you know about the aliens right?

[QuantumRider]

I currently live in a country where about 99.9 of the population is atheist, and the 0.1% who are religeous are looked down upon as brainwashed loonies.

My wife, who was born and raised here, could not believe the "stupidity" (her sentiment, not necessarily mine) of even having a debate regarding "Intelligent Design" vs. evolution as public school curricula, when I mentioned it to her.

I'm not too familiar with either Christianity or Judaism (I was raised in a non-religeous household). However, from what I know, I agree with Bill in that religeon just sets rules for people who can't figure out the rules on their own (that was your basic point, right? Don't want to put words in your mouth).

Feel free to flame away... Am spending the rest of the day with the in-laws anyway

[IrfaanSE801]

I currently live in a country where about 99.9 of the population is atheist, and the 0.1% who are religeous are looked down upon as brainwashed loonies.

My wife, who was born and raised here, could not believe the "stupidity" (her sentiment, not necessarily mine) of even having a debate regarding "Intelligent Design" vs. evolution as public school curricula, when I mentioned it to her.

I'm not too familiar with either Christianity or Judaism (I was raised in a non-religeous household). However, from what I know, I agree with Bill in that religeon just sets rules for people who can't figure out the rules on their own (that was your basic point, right? Don't want to put words in your mouth).

Feel free to flame away... Am spending the rest of the day with the in-laws anyway

That's how I feel about all this too, and I was brought up in a strict religious household. I was just too much of a little b*tch to say it Didn't wanna start shit with anyone over crap like this cause it goes nowhere fast.

[lerxstcat]

All religions are cults... your'e all brainwashed!!!!

Or are YOU brainwashed by SATAN into BELIEVING all religions are cults?
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! :ROTF:

[lerxstcat]

Ah Bill, I understand why you feel that way. I think God does too, and forgives you. I know you don't want to hear that, but it's what I believe. I believe in God, but not in many of the things His churches say. That's 2,000 years of manmade BS, and Jesus warned of that.

You know Jesus died for our CHANCE at redemption - a chance Adam and Eve deprived us of by disobedience. Jesus' death didn't buy us all tickets to Heaven - just the CHANCE to go, which we didn't have before. So when you raise that question you're just seeing if people know the story.

I think on Judgement Day, you are gonna shit yourself, my friend, when you realize that it IS Judgement Day. When you realize that God is real and you dissed Him for half your life, you're gonna shit.

And he'll LET you shit yourself - before he tells you you're forgiven, and lets you in. He knows you saw too much of mankind's evil, and will forgive your lapse of fate because you endured too much.

That's what I believe anyway. My priest would probably call bullshit, but they don't know as much as they think. God is merciful and wants to give mercy. You hate Him because you loved those you saw dead and dying in your job. Your compassion for those people will stand you well in the end.

If you think I'm nuts to believe that, that's okay. Most Catholics would also think I'm nuts to tell a professed Satanist that he's going to Heaven. But God gave me a BS meter for a reason. I believe that you have a good heart and that that is the real criterion. You are a better person than many professed Christians; you are not a Pharisee like they are. It's right there in the NT but they don't get it.

Anyway, I think it's between each of us and our Maker. Priests, preachers, churches, all that's great for fellowship, but as soon as you think that pastor is gonna get you into Heaven with his drill, you're off track. This makes me a "bad" Catholic, but I don't think there are that many "good" ones! Catholics learn 2 things: (1) Don't argue with the priests;and (2) Keep your real beliefs to yourself. If you really disagree with Church doctrine and have to say it out loud, do what Martin Luther did and go start your own church!

My viewpoint is, even if I disagree with the Catholic Church, if I did go and start my own church, I would have as many wrong ideas as the Catholic Church had had. So, best to stay where I am, think what I think and worship for the fellowship and not for every letter of dogma. Again, bad Catholicism, but to me, realistic Christianity. I don't have the answers.

[El_Kabong]

* Deleted as it is a fatuous debate on a guitar board.

Sorry, RacerX, I never saved the Word .doc . It is lost in space.

[RacerX]

Aw c'mon Kabong, put it back: yours was a very valid point.