Ok, I must have been living under a rock

[horns666]

Ron, That's it!!!!

Yep I watched that with the wife..and you know me..

I looked at the wife and laughed and just said WTF??!!

you'd figure these "historians" would have their facts straight before they air such a program on the History channel...I mean that's their job..right?!!

[RacerX]

Ron, you know..I expected that stuff..Hell I watched "COPS" before I was a cop and said to the wife.."hey, I can do that, that looks like fun"..this was back around '88

Ron, you went on a ride-along..I forgot exactly what cool assignments you got the chance to see..

I never, never expected that much insanity from these people..It would take me a book to try and explain the malice, the viciousness, the pure evil that so MANY are capable of..it was this everywhere I went...I dealt with 100% pure brutality on a daily basis for 13 years..and the brutality hasn't stopped since I retired!!

I knew it existed but NEVER knew how much!!

I remember the day I lost my faith..It was during a wake at a black baptist church..the service was for one of my partners that was killed..his family needed counsil..I was part of that counsil..

These people, his family..the pain they endured and the faith they possesed was overwhelming..I looked into their crying eyes with zero answers for them..they wanted comfort from me, from God..

There was a silent stillness in my heart...none that I never felt before..It's weird ..I can't describe it..but it was there..it was real...it was undeniable

Then I had some kind of epiphany..there was no comfort..just a facade of one..their tears, their hopes and prayers WERE God..they were God himself..

It was their will that made "God" real..for that moment

I saw God for the first time..THAT was God..

after that..that feeling never left me..and it was confirmed on a daily basis that he didn't exist nor care..

Interesting....now I have more insight on your history. Have you ever undergone any kind of therapy regarding all this, Bill? I'm not gonna touch on the rest of your post at this time because it looks like the same stuff you've been saying in other threads. I wonder if Satan came to you at that moment, knowing you were ready to be "turned" and clouded your mind....

But I appreciate you opening yourself up and reliving those old memories....I do think you could write a very compelling biography...in fact it would make an awesome movie too! (First dibs on the movie rights! )

I bet more than one movie could be created.... one could be centering on your LEO career and the unexpected horror of your experiences, maybe similar to Platoon (gung ho rookie gets experience in violence and fear)

the other could be your disillusionment w/ Catholicism, how your upbringing set you up for the Satanic epiphany....

[RacerX]

Bill, ya gotta hit F5 once in a while, our replies are out of sync!


Yeah, my ridealong was disappointing; I'll have to write a thread on that soon.

[Cleveland Metal]

Has he ever had therapy????

Bwahahaha... Bill ends up counseling the counselors...

[Razor]

you'd figure these "historians" would have their facts straight before they air such a program on the History channel...I mean that's their job..right?!!

My wife is a teacher Bill, and I was a history major in college. One year my wife is teaching Social Studies in middle school. She knows I'm a big military history buff, so she comes home and tells me she is teaching about Pearl Harbor. That's neat I told her, she then proceeds to tell me how interesting it was that only battleships were sunk at Pearl. I damn near flip my lid!!! I askher who in the hell said that only battleships were sunk at Pearl. She then pulls out the textbook, and there it is in black and white..."only battleships were sunk at Pearl". I immediately proceed to the "Pictoral History of World War II" that my grandfathers' had received for their service during said war, and turn to a page that shows the destroyers Cassin and Downes in drydock from being sunk at Pearl. I've never let her live that down to this day.

you'd figure these "historians" would have their facts straight before they air such a program on the History channel...I mean that's their job..right?!!

You would be surprised at how many historians let their opinion blind their presentation of the supposed "facts". I had many a heated debate in college with history professors. Just remember, research is a historians friend...Google is a good starting point.

[horns666]

Oh boy Ron , my psychotherapist just went for a triple Bi-pass Friday.

He is a man of VERY strong faith..man do we have some DEEP conversations..worth the price of admission alone!!

I'm not an "evil" guy at heart..but I MUST be!!

Becuse I been trained never to be vunerable amoung the infinite sea of crazy assholes out there..I know how to think like them..I must be one step ahead of them at all times..and I know how to kick their fucking asses fast and easy!

I am confrontational and easily provoked into a physical fight..I like that..I like fighting assholes!!

It's a"fearless" thing I guess..I'm already in a world of pain..so what's going to happen..something "bad"..C'mon..I live with pain 24/7/365 ..DEATH would be soothing more than anything...what's one more ass whoopin?!

I welcome death, I want to put my 9mm in my mouth and pull the trigger, like alot of my friends did, or just eat a bottle of pills..the pain would be gone INSTANTLY, how easy is that ..unfortunately, the love for my wife and 11 year old son is blocking that choice at this time!

Someday..I will die with Dignity!!

I must be here for them..I must be strong and fearless..vicious and brutal if need be..with more venom than my enemy..

I WANT people to hate and fear me, I don't want it any other way, I'm not bothered by them this way..

But I can be charmed or be charming..if I befriend you.

Does this sound like someone who gives a fuck about "God" or this precious "life"...I care as much for him and he does for me..that's fair IMO!

I seen death so many fuggin' times..it's no big deal to me anymore..unless it involves my two reasons to breathe..

Love ,

Bill

[lerxstcat]

yes and I'm getting even more shortminded about this thing everytime I learn something new about it.
This is what I do, I study culture, religion and history are huge part of it. It amazes me everythime what people have done in the name of god. And all the stuff I hear is from the professors who have traveled around the world, seen and heard everything. They know pretty much every detail about religion.
Everytime I hear something new, the more it sickens me.
Every religon is involved in something horrible.
I can't even read any books anymore because I know what's there.

Yeah, I believed what my college professors told me about the world too - until I went out and LIVED in the world. As for atrocities all being done in the name of God, let's look at a few in history:

Josef Stalin was an athiest. Great humanitarian, he klilled 20 million of his own people by starvation, because the heavest wasn't enough to feed everyone and buy military hardware he wanted. So he let those people die a slow painful death by starvation. That doesn't count the labor camps and combatants killed in war.

Adolf Hitler was basically an athiest, though he did use both Christian and pagan religious symbols to create a mythology for the master race.

Kaiser Wilhelm incited and inflamed World War I to prove the superior warmanship of the German peoples, i.e. the German and Austrian Empires

Napoleon Bonaparte was not a religious warrior but put Europe through its worst upheaval up until WWI.

The Mongol invasions of Genghis Khan were not motivated by religion but by sheer warlike traits of the Mongols.

The Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Attila the Hun et al who dismembered the Roman Empire were not religiously motivated. They were pushed out of Asia by other tribes and were looking for new homelands.

Alexander the Great was not motiviated by religion, but by a desire to defeat the Persian Empire and conquer the known world.

I'm sure others can bring up other examples, but I've made the point. The MOST casualty-causing wars of human history were caused and prosecuted by athiests, agnostics, or those who just didn't use it as their main cause.

Of course that doesn't mean these people didn't pray to their gods for victory or mercy in battle. That's not the same as saying it was done in the name of religion.

Even the Crusades were a defensive war. The Holy Land belonged to the Byzantine, or Eastern Roman Empire, which was a Christian nation. The Muslims came in and conquered Christian lands first. Christian nations had a choice of fight back, or face further invasions. Muslims ruled most of Spain for 800 years, which is why the Inquisition, ugly as it was,occurred. It in reality was Fernando and Isabel's consolidation of power in the united Spain they had just achieved by conquering the last Muslim kingdom in Spain. It was not as much of the Church, as that Chiurch officials under the Spanish throne's inffluence in Spain were allowed to do it. Not that it wasn't horrible, but put it in context. Spain was terrorized by Muslim raiders for centuries. Once they gained power, they wanted to eradicate support for the old enemy. so if you're going to quote history, tell the whole story - unless your professors haven't told you this side? Liberal arts professors often don't tell you the whole truth - I know that from my college experience.

[horns666]

Razor..that's just plain messed up!!

Well , we are all prone to to believing what we see or hear on TV..well, you'd think the Discovery and History channels would be "safe"..I guess not..

[horns666]

What's ups Rich..

Yeah, just spewing my hateful spew..again!

I'm getting worse with age...waite till' 20 years from now..I doubt I'll see 20 years from now..but if I do..oh boy.:ROTF:

[Big D]

raised lutheran and went to lutheran schools ....
i have come to beleive the whole idea of organized religion
is a farce and was created by man JMHO
but if you want to believe in the bible...FINE
BUT .... leave me alone ...do not persecute me...kill me ...and force your stuff down my throat...do not damn me to hell,for my thinking and all the other mumbo jumbo crapola that goes along with being involved in a religous cult

being spiritual does not mean i have to buy into the bible or any other book

i feel better off doing the next right thing and teaching my
kids to do the same ..

+1 Well said Len. Religion is mostly total crap, but I do not equate religion with being spiritual. I absolutely believe in a higher power...but all the Christian/Catholic/Jew/whatever doctrine is nuts.

I have a Catholic lady on my street who believes in the 6,000 year old earth story, I just about come unglued when people are so stupid. And then to top that off she tried to tell my wife that Noah took dinasours on the ark with him...and she was serious!

If you need religion to fill a void in your life, whatever, knock yourself out. I'll still be your friend. But please don't condemn me just because I don't subscribe to your insanity.

I DO believe in "God". I'm just not arrogant enough to pretend that I actually know who/what God is. Be good to each other, enjoy life, love your family, give to those less fortunate, and I'm guessing it will all work out for ya in the end....

[horns666]

Big D, I think that lady is my Mother-In-law..

Is she REAL ugly??!!

[Big D]

Big D, I think that lady is my Mother-In-law..

Is she REAL ugly??!!

She's not great looking, but she's really ugly on the inside. Which I've found to be true of many of the over the top religous folks I've met.

[lerxstcat]

Big D,

I certainly don't want to force my views upon you; but if you want respect for your POV, try not calling the POV of others insanity. The fact is, neither side of the debate can prove their point, other than on side issuesw like the 6,000 year Earth thing, which I don't believe whatsoever. A medieval monk made calculations based on the timelines of Scripture?

But your casual tossout of all religious people as believing "the insanity" is in it's way the same thing you dislike in Christians. You're forcing your views on others in saying that if they disagree with yours they're "insanity". Have an open mind. I have seen the bad and hypocritical side of religious people since early childhood - and also seen the good and loving help of almost exclusively religious people helping us here in hurricane devastation land since Katrina hit. So compared to our own governments - state and federal - Christians are doing a LOT more tangibly to help us than athiests and agnostiucs.

I have also seen hypocrisy, and also loving and helpful people, in those who are athiest, agnostic or just don't care to address the issue. Since I have seen good and bad in both religious and non-religious people, I conclude that people are just good, bad and ugly, across the lines. People who are anti-religion are some of the most judgemental, spiteful, rancor-filled people out there. Why be more pissed at a Christian talking to you about salvation than the telemarketer or bill collector calling during dinner?

I don't like shoving anything down anyone's throat. You can't make someone want spirituality if they're not looking. Nor will they want magazine subscriptions or MLM schemes.

Maybe pushy people are really your pet peeve? Because those who blame all the world's ills on religion, need to read some history books - and not rely on their profs' interpretations of them! This is a problem with a Cliff Notes society; everyone reads the summary, not the material. You're missing out, folks.

[lerxstcat]

What's ups Rich..

Yeah, just spewing my hateful spew..again!

I'm getting worse with age...waite till' 20 years from now..I doubt I'll see 20 years from now..but if I do..oh boy.:ROTF:

Hey, we understand each other, my friend! But we'll be here 20 years from now! We respect each other so we don't go head to head on these things, but we do keep tuning in to see what the other has to say about it.

I don't claim to have the answers - and I'm a guy who likes to have answers. But my first act of faith was when my dad told me 2+2 was 4. And I believed him, so I learned to add, and later to reason, because I believed and trusted my dad when he explained these things to me. That is my example of how faith and reason are entwined, like an A-frame roof where each side helps support the other. So sometimes you won't have all the facts, but we know there's more to this universe than we can presently explain.

[El_Kabong]

It matters not if it is hyperbole, contextually exploited media and pseudo confirmation by an individual or authoritative power, many will accept the given idea, be it what it may.

The suspension of belief/ disbelief in is a double-edged psychological defense mechanism. When the given reality transgresses an individual's morality under extreme duress wherein the conscious and subconscious are at an impasse, comfortable resolution in servitude prevailant during diurnal norms, temporary regresses us uncomfortably into issues yet unresolved. As we are puppets of our own passions and posses a fragmented self-image incongruous to others perceptions, we seek the safety of what we can comfortably accept.

It's that simple.