Ok, I must have been living under a rock

[GodOfRhythm]

The Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Attila the Hun et al who dismembered the Roman Empire were not religiously motivated. They were pushed out of Asia by other tribes and were looking for new homelands.
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That's an interesting point you make there, Rich. Not to nitpick but this is the version I was taught for many years, but I don't believe it any longer.

Rome back then was like Belgium or Western-Europe for Iranians/Pakistani's etcetera now. A developed region, which was considered to be the very definition of 'civilization'. Everything was organized very well and they had it pretty good.

These clans and tribes that presumably invaded and destroyed Rome did nothing of the sort. They immigrated and INTEGRATED. They wanted to join the system and reap its benefits like any other Roman. Rome had since long been a meltingpot of different nationalities. The tribes soon took over the language, rituals, habits and the most important factor in this, for me to prove my point: roman law. In fact, after the disputed 'fall of Rome' a new breed of emperors came to power, mostly of aforementioned 'immigrant' branches of the population. Yet they were just as much, if not more, interested and driven in Roman law and the system as their predecessors.

Take the Brevarium Alarik I for example. It is in this period that the church also starts playing an important role in the reception of Roman Law, this creating the foundation for our modern-day Western world.

[lerxstcat]

I agree with you on that dude. That's why even though I believe almost nothing that is taught at the church I go to (Lutheran), I still volunteer for charitable events. And I still donate money every month to the church, because it goes to good causes.

But I'm telling you, if our Pastor starts trying to push the 6,000 year theory on me....then I am DONE!

Now I'm about to say a very un-Catholic thing, but I understand you. Maybe sayinbg this will help you understand me, and other Catholics I think (though most won'st admit it).

Lutherans followed the first man to protest (Protestants) wrongful acts by the Roman Catholic Church, and so I understand that if you think your pastor's spouting BS, your reaction is to leave - maybe go start your own offshoot if you're spiritually inspired.

Catholics also have their BS meter, but we still feel our Church, founded by St. Peter, is the legitimate church commissioned by Christ. Now Jesus told us to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. This is generally interpreted by the RCC as "don't follow the Antichrist" and to an extent to discredit Protestant denominations, although the RCC has downplayed that in recent years.

To ME, wolves in sheep's clothing means that there is BS everywhere - the RCC, the Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians, et al...

So if I think something like the 6,000 year theory is BS, I note that - but I don't decl,are against it in church, and don't go looking for another church whenever the management states a dogma I disagree with.

Why not? Because they ALL spout a lot of BS, even though a lot of it is well-meaning. So I keep my mouth shut, don't rock their boat, and worship God in a place I'm comfortable, with others who also love God. I think each of us has different ideas on matters like contraception, premarital sex and other subjects, but we quietly hold those beliefs. The alternative, at the end of the road, is the storefront church with 20 congregants. Not that that's a bad thing, or less true than mine, but I'm more comfortable in the RCC. It is no more or no less right than the others. Of course you may disagree, that's your right that I don't dispute. Just don't dismiss my POV as insanity if you don't share it. Most "normal" people think we're insane for digging this raucous metal music, right? They just don't know what they're missing!

[lerxstcat]

That's an interesting point you make there, Rich. Not to nitpick but this is the version I was taught for many years, but I don't believe it any longer.

Rome back then was like Belgium or Western-Europe for Iranians/Pakistani's etcetera now. A developed region, which was considered to be the very definition of 'civilization'. Everything was organized very well and they had it pretty good.

These clans and tribes that presumably invaded and destroyed Rome did nothing of the sort. They immigrated and INTEGRATED. They wanted to join the system and reap its benefits like any other Roman. Rome had since long been a meltingpot of different nationalities. The tribes soon took over the language, rituals, habits and the most important factor in this, for me to prove my point: roman law. In fact, after the disputed 'fall of Rome' a new breed of emperors came to power, mostly of aforementioned 'immigrant' branches of the population. Yet they were just as much, if not more, interested and driven in Roman law and the system as their predecessors.

Take the Brevarium Alarik I for example. It is in this period that the church also starts playing an important role in the reception of Roman Law, this creating the foundation for our modern-day Western world.

So why do you no longer believe the fall of Rome? As far as I know Romulus Augustulus was the last Westernb Roman emperor, killed in A.D.476 by Alarik's Goths. Maybe Alarik took the title of emperor but history simply knows him as king of Italy. The next "Roman" Eemperor Was Charlemagne, crowned by the Pope in what, A.D. 800? That was over 300 years later, and the Holy Roman Empire was missing vast portions of the old Western Roman Empire. It was an attempt, that technically lasted until Napoleon snuffed it out, but the only times it had real power was when someone who was already a powerful ruler then became Holy Roman Emperor too.

And yes, many Germanic tribes immigrated and assimilated, to a point. But their wilder cousins are the ones who eventually invaded and collapsed the dregs of the empire. And they WERE under pressure from the Huns, Tartars, Cossacks and a number of other tribes. If you have evidence that this wasn't so, I really would like to see it. It counters everything I've ever seen or heard.