Gross!!

[RacerX]

So....any funky lookin' worms come outta you guys' asses yet?

[StukaJU87]

So....any funky lookin' worms come outta you guys' asses yet?

I just received mine today. I will probably start it on Sunday. I'll be out in NYC all day Saturday drinking. Wouldn't want to blow out parasites at an inoportune time now, would I?

[Chad]

The insurance industry spans much more than medical insurance and insuring doctors.

I know it spans more than medical insurance....that was just an example.....actually the majority of my 8 years was in P&C insurance.

Take a look at what is going on in the Gulf South right now if you would like a good look at how the insurance industry functions.

It is DESIGNED to retain money, not pay it out. Keep that in mind.

Let me give you a little example of how it works. Let's say you are in a car accident. You are injured and liability is clear. Now, you would think this would be an open and shut case, correct? No, that is not how it works.

First stage is attempting to settle with an insurance adjuster. Now, if the injury is not severe, this should be easy. Let's say you treat for 6 months. The adjuster should be able to handle this, correct? Generally, it is a give and take attempt with the adjuster. He lowballs you, you come back higher, etc. At some point you either decide to take less than you are entitled to, or you file suit. You are not going to get a fair settlement at this stage.

The thing is that a lot of people just don't understand and are intimidated by insurance......that doesn't mean insurance is bad....it just means they don't understand it. They are further intimidated and brainwashed by the retarded "we mean business....blah, blah, blah" ambulance chaser attorney TV commercials. A good percentage of people could get decent and fair settlements on their own if they just spent a little time documenting and justifying their case......sometimes just a letter or two will go in the right direction. But most are too lazy/intimated, so they let Joe attorney do the same thing and let him rack up exorbitant fees that trickle down to make insurance more expensive.

I honestly feel that most insurance companies are fair. I worked with several and found their settlements to be fair. Actually, I had more than a few claims where insureds actually commented that they thought the settlement was TOO fair. Truly honest insureds who felt that the company was overpaying. I had an uncle who had a house fire and he still tells me to this day that he can't believe how easy the company was in handing out $$ to make sure they were happy. It's not all rosy, though. I had some problems with companies I represented from time to time and if I had multiple disagreements with a company, then I would dump them. Most of the time it was a problem with staffing (new/uneducated adjuster, etc.) and not that they were intentionally being dishonest or trying to rip off the insured....they just had poor customer service. There are some companies that are less than desirable out there, though.......seems to be most of the captive companies....State Farm, AllState, etc. I would never buy insurance from any of those companies and I wish they would die because they give the insurance industry a bad name. But in summary, I *do* feel that most companies are honest and fair.

I have a question....what % do attorneys operate on normally? Most P&C agents operate on 6% to 25%....most sales hovering in the 10% to 15% area. I have a feeling it's much higher than that for attorneys. Most tout the "if we don't collect, you don't pay" line knowing darn well that they can collect on nearly every case they pursue....just like the insured could do on their own if they had they had the gumption.

If you file suit, the adjuster is removed from the equation and in most cases, ouside counsel is brought in. Now, because the insurance industry does not want to set precedent that they will pay out, they will incur more in fees than the difference between what you wanted and what they wanted to give. Outside counsel, who generally bills by the hour (some are under flat rate contracts), does not want to settle this case quickly..how would they make money? So, they start racking up the hours with letters, phone calls, discovery, depositions and other mumbo-jumbo.

Once they have billed enough hours delaying the inevitable, which they would call exercising due dilligence for their client, they will start talking settlement...and lowball you just like the insurance company already did. So, time has gone on...fees have been cranked up and you are still basically in phase 1. If you and the defense counsel cannot reach an agreement, you will set it for trial. This will, of course, crank up the hours of preparation and the fees the insurance company gets billed. Preparing for a trial is long and tedious, and expensive. The insurance company would like to deter YOU from a trial, by outspending you.

Negotiations will continue, of course. If you still can't reach a resolution...you go on. Expect REAL settlement offers to be made on the eve of trial, or at trial. They don't want to lose and risk a bigger award than you were asking for. This is when most good settlements are made.

So, what has transpired? Instead of just paying a reasonable amount and resolving the case quickly, the insurance company threw every hurdle in your way, incurred more money in expenses than they would have paid out under a reasonable settlement, and ended up paying anyway.

They pass this expense on to policy holders.

What has transpired? A bunch of attorneys' pockets got lined on both sides. And at the expense of the insurance company whose expenses are paid by policyholders who will get charged higher rates to line more attorneys' pockets. The sad thing is that the person probably could have got a decent and fair settlement on their own had they just done a little homework and treated the insurance company with respect. It makes no financial sense for companies to wish to pay out more money only to attorneys.

BTW, I have friends that are attorneys (who doesn't?......every other person you see on the street currently is or is studying to be an attorney) and I appreciate some of their services, but when it comes to the Telattorneys......yuck.

[quakana]

So....any funky lookin' worms come outta you guys' asses yet?

:ROTF: :ROTF:

[MBreinin]

Chad:

All, plaintiff's attorneys work on a contigency basis. Generally, 33 1/3 % if you don't go to trial.

You are incorrect in your assertion that most people could achieve a reasonable settlement on their own. Most adjusters treat a claimant totally differently than one represented by counsel. This is not a house fire situation, but a tort situation where we are talking about more than property damage.

Who really "lined their pockets" in the above situation? Defense counsel. Plaintiff's counsel had to pay out for experts, transcripts, court costs, etc. The longer the case goes on, the more it costs plaintiff's counsel and earns defense counsel. In the end, the insurance company pays out, but has to pay both the plaintiff and the defense attorney. They pass this on to the consumer....instead of just paying the claim initially.

Mike

[VitaminG]

I just received mine today. I will probably start it on Sunday. I'll be out in NYC all day Saturday drinking. Wouldn't want to blow out parasites at an inoportune time now, would I?

That's the way Scott - get those parasites all liquored up and then hit 'em hard before they can recover!

[Chad]

MBreinin: It gets down to defining what is "fair" and "reasonable". In some claims that is easy......like property damage. But in more complicated cases like where there is a fatality that gets more complicated. How do you put a value on a human life? Determing takes a lot of time, energy, and patience, which a lot of people don't have...especially in situations where they have lost a loved one. So they get an attorney to represent them. That doesn't prove that the insurance industry is "bad". It just proves that a person is opting to have somebody else take care of the matter for them. They will probably get a "reasonable" settlement simply because the attorney does what they are opting not to do themselves, which is fine. What bothers me is:

1. The Telattorney TV ads that prompt people to go to an attorney for every single insurance claim. That just isn't necessary and creates the trickle down problems I've already mentioned.

2. The unnecessary bashing of the insurance industry brought about from the Telattorney ads.

3. What the average attorney defines as "fair" and "reasonable" oftentimes is far from fair and reasonable. Therein lies the problem and that is why some claims drag on forever.

4. Attorneys generally charge too much money for what they do and they do too much "milking".

[VitaminG]

I too work in the insurance industry. I don't know how different things are over there, but Life Insurance is relatively straight ahead within my organisation. You take out a policy for a sum insured of $X. You may take out additional benefits for Accidental Death or whatever. When the Life Insured dies, either a solicitor representing the estate or a next of kin (or another legal applicant) applies to the company for a claim. The claimant is issued with a list of requirements they must submit to satisfy the Trustee that the claim is legitimate. The requirements may vary depend on the state the client lived in, the value of the policy, etc. Once the requirements are received, the Trustee will make a determination and pay out the sum insured, plus any additional interest (or bonuses, depending on product) the policy may have earned during its term, plus any additional riders or benefits as applicable.

The value of a human life is determined by the size of the policy the client wishes to take out, or the size of the premium they can afford.

Simple, really.

[SeventhSon]

Well, life insurance *is* relatively simple compared to property insurance because it's really hard to have a long debate about whether someone's really dead or not!

[RacerX]

More poo talk, less lawyer talk

[YetAnotherOne]

The insurance industry is the single most profitable sector of the US economy on a profit per dollar of sales basis. They average just under double what the big oil companies are pulling down in their most profitable stretch ever. If big oil is evil why the heck aren't the mobs with pitchforks at the doors of every insurance company?

[Soap]

More poo talk, less lawyer talk

+1

[toejam]

Chad:

All, plaintiff's attorneys work on a contigency basis. Generally, 33 1/3 % if you don't go to trial.

You are incorrect in your assertion that most people could achieve a reasonable settlement on their own. Most adjusters treat a claimant totally differently than one represented by counsel. This is not a house fire situation, but a tort situation where we are talking about more than property damage.

Who really "lined their pockets" in the above situation? Defense counsel. Plaintiff's counsel had to pay out for experts, transcripts, court costs, etc. The longer the case goes on, the more it costs plaintiff's counsel and earns defense counsel. In the end, the insurance company pays out, but has to pay both the plaintiff and the defense attorney. They pass this on to the consumer....instead of just paying the claim initially.

Mike

I know this all too well. I'm a court reporter and take depositions all the time. It's horrible how the insurance companies operate, and Allstate seems to be the worst.

[Chad]

I'll agree with ya on AllState.....they suck.

[lerxstcat]

The insurance industry spans much more than medical insurance and insuring doctors.

Take a look at what is going on in the Gulf South right now if you would like a good look at how the insurance industry functions.

It is DESIGNED to retain money, not pay it out. Keep that in mind.

Let me give you a little example of how it works. Let's say you are in a car accident. You are injured and liability is clear. Now, you would think this would be an open and shut case, correct? No, that is not how it works.

First stage is attempting to settle with an insurance adjuster. Now, if the injury is not severe, this should be easy. Let's say you treat for 6 months. The adjuster should be able to handle this, correct? Generally, it is a give and take attempt with the adjuster. He lowballs you, you come back higher, etc. At some point you either decide to take less than you are entitled to, or you file suit. You are not going to get a fair settlement at this stage.

If you file suit, the adjuster is removed from the equation and in most cases, ouside counsel is brought in. Now, because the insurance industry does not want to set precedent that they will pay out, they will incur more in fees than the difference between what you wanted and what they wanted to give. Outside counsel, who generally bills by the hour (some are under flat rate contracts), does not want to settle this case quickly..how would they make money? So, they start racking up the hours with letters, phone calls, discovery, depositions and other mumbo-jumbo.

Once they have billed enough hours delaying the inevitable, which they would call exercising due dilligence for their client, they will start talking settlement...and lowball you just like the insurance company already did. So, time has gone on...fees have been cranked up and you are still basically in phase 1. If you and the defense counsel cannot reach an agreement, you will set it for trial. This will, of course, crank up the hours of preparation and the fees the insurance company gets billed. Preparing for a trial is long and tedious, and expensive. The insurance company would like to deter YOU from a trial, by outspending you.

Negotiations will continue, of course. If you still can't reach a resolution...you go on. Expect REAL settlement offers to be made on the eve of trial, or at trial. They don't want to lose and risk a bigger award than you were asking for. This is when most good settlements are made.

So, what has transpired? Instead of just paying a reasonable amount and resolving the case quickly, the insurance company threw every hurdle in your way, incurred more money in expenses than they would have paid out under a reasonable settlement, and ended up paying anyway.

They pass this expense on to policy holders.

It is all a crapshoot and a poker game. They want to blow you off for nothing, and they will spend the bucks to keep dealing the cards...even if they spend more in the end than in the beginning.

Big cases are even worse.

Mike

This is very true. The areas hit by Katrina are barely doing any rebuilding nearly a year later due to massive stonewalling by the insurance industry.
Many policyholders whose homes were obviously destroyed by wind, even storm-spawned tornadoes are being denied claims because the storm surge came in later. One of our Congressmen met an adjuster who said his home was destroyed by the storm surge. He pointed to a piece of his metal roof wrapped around a tree 35 feet up in the air and asked him how the surge put his roof 35 feet up in a tree when it didn't get that high? The guy just shrugged his shoulder and didn't even try to answer him. It was basically "Fuck you, this is our story. Too many claims, we're not paying anybody".

A few adjustors have been shot down here, and insurance agents are hiring bodyguards. A lot of people are quitting the business because they don't want to be a part of this massive gangbang of customers who paid for 30 years.

The insurance industry is obscene. Fucking obscene. If they don't pay, look for lots of homicides involving insurance agents and adjusters in the next few years in the Southeast. Prison doesn't look bad when you're already living in a FEMA trailer and your eviction date's coming up. FEMA is already doing this BTW; they told everyone it'd be 18 months but are sending out eviction notices right now, 9 months after the storm.

But FEMA's another story, though since this thread's about shit the connections to FEMA and the insurance industry are strong.