Random Computer crashes

[SeventhSon]

whaterver you do, take an immediate backup.

my computer exhibited similar problems and it turned out to be a bad harddrive. it was making clicking sounds that i ignored until too late as well. anyway, i sent the hard drive to 3 different recovery companies, and none of the companies could recover my data. i lost about 10 years worth of data.

[OnlineStageGear]

I'll argue that one till the cows come home... corrupt system files will crash consistantly at the same point everytime. Unlike hardware, a file either works or it doesn't, there is no in between with software.

Not to be argumentive here, but that just simply is not true. Corrupt software can very much start to act up intermittently. Keep in mind a hard drive is still and iron oxide core written with a magnet. When data is on the edge, a drive could read it one time, go back and not read it, then the next day read it.

As far as your problem goes jgcable, any one of the devices in your PC can cause all kinds of problems. If anyone can tell you with 100% certaintity that a certain device is not at fault without finding the exact source of the problem first has not had the experience to see all the kinds of problems a PC repair tech will see. Like a bad bad modem keeping the floppy drive from working, or a bad stick of ram keeping a file from opening but everything else works fine.

Random reboots like that would point to the power supply first, motherboard second and ram third, but like I said could be any other component in there. Always start with what is the easiest. You sure wouldn't want to go through swapping a motherboard and power supply to find out it was a ram stick. Pull all your devices like modem, sound card and ethernet if not onboard, cdrom and so on so you can rule them out. Then swap out the Ram, then the power supply and if you still are getting reboots, all you have left is the motherboard and processors. If you don't have components on-hand to swap them out with or can't borrow a friends machine, do what you can.

Matt

[rjohnstone]

Sorry but I would not 100% rule out a software failure of some kind. Non-deterministic software failures are very possible - I've debugged enough of these over the years to know that for a fact. However, I've never seen an intermittent software failure that wasn't dependent on hardware state. That doesn't mean hardware failure, just the state of the hardware at the time. This can be anything from random garbage in memory at startup, the timing of control lines, etc. So ultimately you do have a software anomaly that is hardware related but it does not mean bad hardware.

Tim you sound like a politician... that was the biggest load of double talk I have read in a long time.

[jgcable]

I'll argue that one till the cows come home... corrupt system files will crash consistantly at the same point everytime. Unlike hardware, a file either works or it doesn't, there is no in between with software.
Hardware on the other hand can work perfectly one minute, flake out the next minute then be fine a minute later.
In this case, sometimes it starts normaly and sometimes it takes a few tries.
Sometimes it will run for a while and the crash... very random.
His problems are random and consistant with a failing hardware component.
Things like his monitor going into what appears to be sleep/suspend mode.
This would point to a possible ACPI issue,which is controled by the bios.
Or maybe the video card is crapping out and causing the system to shutdown.
Regardless, reloading the OS is the longest and hardest part to do and should only be done as a LAST resort, not the first.
Swapping out parts takes a few minutes or seconds in most cases.

One thing you may want to try... reseat every connection inside the case.
Ford calls it the "wiggle test", mechanics call it "nut and bolting".
Basicaly go through every connection and make sure it's solid.
A loose cpu or an imporperly seated memory stick can wreak havoc on any system.

The only bad side of a hardware issue when you aren't in the business is swapping out parts. I don't have an extra video card or an extra sound card to try swapping out. I have to go to the store and buy them. Once you open up hardware its not returnable. Store credit only.
I already did the wiggle test. I took the entire computer apart and blew it out with a can of air. It was dirty. I put everything back together and checked every connection. It didn't change anything.
If the sound card or the video card was bad wouldn't a conflict show up in device manager? Or.. wouldn't I experience sound or video issues?

Give me a list of what to check and I'll go through them tonight.

[jgcable]

I replaced the power supply around 6 months ago. I have a Echo Darla 8 card. Can I swap the Audigy 2 card with that one to see if the SoundBlaster is the problem?

[rjohnstone]

Not to be argumentive here, but that just simply is not true. Corrupt software can very much start to act up intermittently. Keep in mind a hard drive is still and iron oxide core written with a magnet. When data is on the edge, a drive could read it one time, go back and not read it, then the next day read it.

My point exactly... failure to READ a file by the drive head is a hardware failure, not a software failure.
A corrupt file will NEVER work.
Let's also not confuse a corrupt application with an individual file.
You can use a corrupt application all day long and have no issues until you try and read/use the one dependant file (.dll, .ocx, etc.) that is hosed.
This goes back to my point about system files.
A system file is just that, an individual file... it either works or it doesn't.

[Shawn Lutz]

Power Supply, bad memory and motherboard fault would be my guess. I've see some weird things with PS...sometimes the molex connectors can drop slightly the voltage hitting the board.

[hippietim]

Tim you sound like a politician... that was the biggest load of double talk I have read in a long time.

In what way? You claimed that software can't be responsible for an intermittent failure. You are wrong. I tried to explain why you were wrong.

[rjohnstone]

The only bad side of a hardware issue when you aren't in the business is swapping out parts. I don't have an extra video card or an extra sound card to try swapping out. I have to go to the store and buy them. Once you open up hardware its not returnable. Store credit only.
I already did the wiggle test. I took the entire computer apart and blew it out with a can of air. It was dirty. I put everything back together and checked every connection. It didn't change anything.
If the sound card or the video card was bad wouldn't a conflict show up in device manager? Or.. wouldn't I experience sound or video issues?

Give me a list of what to check and I'll go through them tonight.

Matt listed some very good steps to go through.
Pull out all the extra components, sound card, modem card, network card, etc and then boot up the system and see what happens.
You may get some waringns about a device not being found, but that's normal.
See if the system stabalizes. If it does, keep adding back components until the error returns.
There are also a ton of freeware and shareware utils out there to test your memory, video card and motherboard to see if they are having issues.
And no, Device Manager does not always display and error if there is a hardware problem. It typicaly displays an error if the driver fails to load, anything beyond that is subjective.

[GWARGHOUL]

I would defintley check the video card.
You have dual processors, and the only reason that the architecture would become unstable enough to cause a crash without any OS indication, would be a hardware issue.

Everybody here has sent you in the right direction. Also check your video card, thats a pretty good candidate.

Also, whats the wattage rating on your power supply?
Running dualies consumes some power.
Also a pretty consuming video card you have there.

The power supply could be on its way out. You replaced it 6 months ago, but think of it this way.. if its always working its ass off to power all of that up, it will burn it out quicker, and a lot of times, intermittent power is a good indicator to it being overworked/going out.

Sorta like a 4 tube power amp with two tubes out.
It'll work, but its goign to over work itself, and burn out.

[GWARGHOUL]

Oh, and I wish I would have bought that machine, btw.

If you want to get rid of it, hit me up. I still feel a little in debt to ya for that battery incident.

[jgcable]

I would defintley check the video card.
You have dual processors, and the only reason that the architecture would become unstable enough to cause a crash without any OS indication, would be a hardware issue.

Everybody here has sent you in the right direction. Also check your video card, thats a pretty good candidate.

Also, whats the wattage rating on your power supply?
Running dualies consumes some power.
Also a pretty consuming video card you have there.

The power supply could be on its way out. You replaced it 6 months ago, but think of it this way.. if its always working its ass off to power all of that up, it will burn it out quicker, and a lot of times, intermittent power is a good indicator to it being overworked/going out.

Sorta like a 4 tube power amp with two tubes out.
It'll work, but its goign to over work itself, and burn out.

How do I check the video card?

[jgcable]

Oh, and I wish I would have bought that machine, btw.

If you want to get rid of it, hit me up. I still feel a little in debt to ya for that battery incident.

Its still a monster of a machine. I have run Sonar 4 applications that would make most machines crash or at least have a ton of dropouts. When this one is working.. its super powerful.

[jgcable]

Matt listed some very good steps to go through.
Pull out all the extra components, sound card, modem card, network card, etc and then boot up the system and see what happens.
You may get some waringns about a device not being found, but that's normal.
See if the system stabalizes. If it does, keep adding back components until the error returns.
There are also a ton of freeware and shareware utils out there to test your memory, video card and motherboard to see if they are having issues.
And no, Device Manager does not always display and error if there is a hardware problem. It typicaly displays an error if the driver fails to load, anything beyond that is subjective.

If you could point me in the direction of the freeware or shareware that would be great. I tried searching for these utilities but I couldn't find any free ones. They were all adverstisements to buy them.

[Soap]

How do I check the video card?

Usually a black screen.
Yes, definietly consider the PSU causing some of the issues first.
Its the easiest of all the hardware upgrades...no uninstall or reinstalling stuff just replace the PSU and go.

Definietly get one thats got enough juice to accomodate your current needs as well as any potential future upgrades.
The two areas of hardware buying you don't want to be skimpy on the money, is, PSU's and Memory. You'll do yourself a great service researching (reviews) and paying the extra money for quality in these two areas. Crucial, Giel, Corsair and OCZ all make quality memory.