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  • #61
    Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe
    "The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists
    By Tom Harris
    Canada Free Press
    Monday, June 12, 2006

    "Scientists have an independent obligation to respect and present the truth as they see it," Al Gore sensibly asserts in his film "An Inconvenient Truth", showing at Cumberland 4 Cinemas in Toronto since Jun 2. With that outlook in mind, what do world climate experts actually think about the science of his movie?

    Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia gives what, for many Canadians, is a surprising assessment: "Gore's circumstantial arguments are so weak that they are pathetic. It is simply incredible that they, and his film, are commanding public attention."

    But surely Carter is merely part of what most people regard as a tiny cadre of "climate change skeptics" who disagree with the "vast majority of scientists" Gore cites?

    No; Carter is one of hundreds of highly qualified non-governmental, non-industry, non-lobby group climate experts who contest the hypothesis that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are causing significant global climate change. "Climate experts" is the operative term here. Why? Because what Gore's "majority of scientists" think is immaterial when only a very small fraction of them actually work in the climate field.

    Even among that fraction, many focus their studies on the impacts of climate change; biologists, for example, who study everything from insects to polar bears to poison ivy. "While many are highly skilled researchers, they generally do not have special knowledge about the causes of global climate change," explains former University of Winnipeg climatology professor Dr. Tim Ball. "They usually can tell us only about the effects of changes in the local environment where they conduct their studies."

    This is highly valuable knowledge, but doesn't make them climate change cause experts, only climate impact experts.

    So we have a smaller fraction.

    But it becomes smaller still. Among experts who actually examine the causes of change on a global scale, many concentrate their research on designing and enhancing computer models of hypothetical futures. "These models have been consistently wrong in all their scenarios," asserts Ball. "Since modelers concede computer outputs are not "predictions" but are in fact merely scenarios, they are negligent in letting policy-makers and the public think they are actually making forecasts."

    We should listen most to scientists who use real data to try to understand what nature is actually telling us about the causes and extent of global climate change. In this relatively small community, there is no consensus, despite what Gore and others would suggest.

    Here is a small sample of the side of the debate we almost never hear:

    Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"

    Patterson concluded his testimony by explaining what his research and "hundreds of other studies" reveal: on all time scales, there is very good correlation between Earth's temperature and natural celestial phenomena such changes in the brightness of the Sun.

    Dr. Boris Winterhalter, former marine researcher at the Geological Survey of Finland and professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, takes apart Gore's dramatic display of Antarctic glaciers collapsing into the sea. "The breaking glacier wall is a normally occurring phenomenon which is due to the normal advance of a glacier," says Winterhalter. "In Antarctica the temperature is low enough to prohibit melting of the ice front, so if the ice is grounded, it has to break off in beautiful ice cascades. If the water is deep enough icebergs will form."

    Dr. Wibjörn Karlén, emeritus professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden, admits, "Some small areas in the Antarctic Peninsula have broken up recently, just like it has done back in time. The temperature in this part of Antarctica has increased recently, probably because of a small change in the position of the low pressure systems."

    But Karlén clarifies that the 'mass balance' of Antarctica is positive - more snow is accumulating than melting off. As a result, Ball explains, there is an increase in the 'calving' of icebergs as the ice dome of Antarctica is growing and flowing to the oceans. When Greenland and Antarctica are assessed together, "their mass balance is considered to possibly increase the sea level by 0.03 mm/year - not much of an effect," Karlén concludes.

    The Antarctica has survived warm and cold events over millions of years. A meltdown is simply not a realistic scenario in the foreseeable future.

    Gore tells us in the film, "Starting in 1970, there was a precipitous drop-off in the amount and extent and thickness of the Arctic ice cap." This is misleading, according to Ball: "The survey that Gore cites was a single transect across one part of the Arctic basin in the month of October during the 1960s when we were in the middle of the cooling period. The 1990 runs were done in the warmer month of September, using a wholly different technology."

    Karlén explains that a paper published in 2003 by University of Alaska professor Igor Polyakov shows that, the region of the Arctic where rising temperature is supposedly endangering polar bears showed fluctuations since 1940 but no overall temperature rise. "For several published records it is a decrease for the last 50 years," says Karlén

    Dr. Dick Morgan, former advisor to the World Meteorological Organization and climatology researcher at University of Exeter, U.K. gives the details, "There has been some decrease in ice thickness in the Canadian Arctic over the past 30 years but no melt down. The Canadian Ice Service records show that from 1971-1981 there was average, to above average, ice thickness. From 1981-1982 there was a sharp decrease of 15% but there was a quick recovery to average, to slightly above average, values from 1983-1995. A sharp drop of 30% occurred again 1996-1998 and since then there has been a steady increase to reach near normal conditions since 2001."

    Concerning Gore's beliefs about worldwide warming, Morgan points out that, in addition to the cooling in the NW Atlantic, massive areas of cooling are found in the North and South Pacific Ocean; the whole of the Amazon Valley; the north coast of South America and the Caribbean; the eastern Mediterranean, Black Sea, Caucasus and Red Sea; New Zealand and even the Ganges Valley in India. Morgan explains, "Had the IPCC used the standard parameter for climate change (the 30 year average) and used an equal area projection, instead of the Mercator (which doubled the area of warming in Alaska, Siberia and the Antarctic Ocean) warming and cooling would have been almost in balance."

    Gore's point that 200 cities and towns in the American West set all time high temperature records is also misleading according to Dr. Roy Spencer, Principal Research Scientist at The University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is not unusual for some locations, out of the thousands of cities and towns in the U.S., to set all-time records," he says. "The actual data shows that overall, recent temperatures in the U.S. were not unusual."

    Carter does not pull his punches about Gore's activism, "The man is an embarrassment to US science and its many fine practitioners, a lot of whom know (but feel unable to state publicly) that his propaganda crusade is mostly based on junk science."

    In April sixty of the world's leading experts in the field asked Prime Minister Harper to order a thorough public review of the science of climate change, something that has never happened in Canada. Considering what's at stake - either the end of civilization, if you believe Gore, or a waste of billions of dollars, if you believe his opponents - it seems like a reasonable request.
    global warming and cooling cycles have gone on for millions of years, before there was man on the the planet, and wholly independent of any actions or inactions by man.

    wow, that sounds like a good basis for a "man causes global warming" movement to me.
    the guitar players look damaged - they've been outcasts all their lives

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by SeventhSon
      National Acadamy
      Those guys can't seem to spell very well, so I wouldn't trust their conclusions!
      "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

      Comment


      • #63
        It's warm here now, all the ice has melted. I've got a thawing iceman on my lawn... what should I name him?
        I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by straycat
          Al Gore is a TOOL and a liar.
          SUVs dont cause high gas prices.People that invest in gas futures cause the price changes.Nothing we do is going to cause global warming or cause a hole in the ozone layer.
          The earth is actually in a cold cycle at this time.
          MM you need to quit reading Time magazine or you local paper and start thinking for yourself.
          The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


          Straycat, the earth is FAR from being in a cold cycle.

          Don't get me wrong I am not a tree hugger by any means....its survival of the fittest and right now we're winning cuz we can wipe anything out. I love being on the winning team...I don't care who or what the competion is....the Yankees or some rare exotic Brazilian plant that cures cancer. As long as I win I don't care. Now that being said, I am instilling that same attitude into my children as well. There is no 2nd place. So if the earth is a dried up dustball in a few hundred years because of our domination of it.....that means WE'RE #1....WE'RE #1........WE'RE#1
          I live on the edge of danger facing life and death every single day.....then I leave her at home and go disarm bombs.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by skorb
            global warming and cooling cycles have gone on for millions of years, before there was man on the the planet, and wholly independent of any actions or inactions by man.

            wow, that sounds like a good basis for a "man causes global warming" movement to me.
            Did you see the earlier posts? Carter is a paid shill for Exxon-Mobil. Canada Free Press is a PR agency. Why don't you read the Science link:



            There is no dispute among scientiests that global warming is occurring and that it is being caused by humans. I don't consider this a left vs. right issue (except for politicians who have their own agendas), so I'm confused as to why this issue seems so politically charged? So Gore once ran against Bush. Who freakin cares? What is the wonderful upside of choosing to believe that it's not happening? What is the terrible downside of considering that it's a possibility?

            To me, it seems prudent to at least consider the possibility (especially in the face of the prevalent scientific opinion) because the results could be pretty ugly for OUR KIDS if the scientists are right. You know, those same guys that put a man on the moon. I doubt if most of you doubters would treat other threats to your kids (like a convicted child molester moving into your neighborhood) so dismissively.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

            Comment


            • #66
              I think i'll put up Steven Hawking against Bob Carter any day of the week...

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

              Comment


              • #67
                So what should I name my iceman... Steve or Gorack?
                I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by SeventhSon
                  There is no dispute among scientiests that global warming is occurring and that it is being caused by humans.
                  No offense but I tuned you out right there. Anyone who actually repeats that is either: a) stupid; b) too uninformed to be commenting; or c) lying. Fact is that *lots* of scientists (see e.g., the Oregon Petition) dispute the idea that the current science supports the hypothesis of catastrophic human-induced global warming. But you don't want to hear from any of them do you? After anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is a shill for Exxon.
                  Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by toejam
                    So what should I name my iceman... Steve or Gorack?
                    Gee, I wonder what your favorite show is?
                    "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      One of the best shows ever!
                      I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by YetAnotherOne
                        No offense but I tuned you out right there. Anyone who actually repeats that is either: a) stupid; b) too uninformed to be commenting; or c) lying. Fact is that *lots* of scientists (see e.g., the Oregon Petition) dispute the idea that the current science supports the hypothesis of catastrophic human-induced global warming. But you don't want to hear from any of them do you? After anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is a shill for Exxon.
                        Is Steven Hawking a, b, or c? :ROTF:

                        Again, you have yet to show a link to an actual study that has been published in a peer-review science journal performed by a scientist who supports your position.

                        Oh, and regarding the Oregon Petition...



                        "
                        The text of the petition is often misrepresented by its proponents as, for example, "over 17,000 scientists declare that global warming is a lie with no scientific basis" [2] whereas the petition itself only speaks of catastrophic warming. Further, the covering letter, written in the style of a contribution to PNAS, sent with the petition was strongly criticised as "designed to be deceptive by giving people the impression that the article, which is full of half-truths, is a reprint and has passed peer review,” (Raymond Pierrehumbert, atmospheric chemist at the University of Chicago). The National Academy of Sciences issued a statement that the petition had nothing to do with them.
                        As with the Leipzig declaration, the qualifications of the signatories, and their agreement with the stated contents have been questioned. The Scientific American took a sample of signatories and reported
                        Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition—one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community."
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by SeventhSon
                          Did you see the earlier posts? Carter is a paid shill for Exxon-Mobil. Canada Free Press is a PR agency. Why don't you read the Science link:

                          http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../306/5702/1686
                          yeah says you and some liberal conspiracy theory website which you keep touting. how about some other souces which are reputable?

                          I'm with YetAnotherOne on this. I think it is incredibly naive and humanocentrically arrogant to truly believe humans are the prime reason for the earth's cooling and warming cycles which have been occurring for millions of years prior to our arrival.

                          do I want less pollution? of course.

                          do I think Algore is any kind of believable spokesperson for any movement, much less this particularly moronic one, LOLOLOL
                          the guitar players look damaged - they've been outcasts all their lives

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            "In reality, neither Robinson's paper nor OISM's petition drive had anything to do with the National Academy of Sciences, which first heard about the petition when its members began calling to ask if the NAS had taken a stand against the Kyoto treaty. Robinson was not even a climate scientist. He was a biochemist with no published research in the field of climatology, and his paper had never been subjected to peer review by anyone with training in the field. In fact, the paper had never been accepted for publication anywhere, let alone in the NAS Proceedings. It was self-published by Robinson, who did the typesetting himself on his own computer. (It was subsequently published as a "review" in Climate Research, which contributed to an editorial scandal at that publication.)"
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by bombtek
                              http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060622/...obal_warming_3

                              Straycat, the earth is FAR from being in a cold cycle.

                              Don't get me wrong I am not a tree hugger by any means....its survival of the fittest and right now we're winning cuz we can wipe anything out. I love being on the winning team...I don't care who or what the competion is....the Yankees or some rare exotic Brazilian plant that cures cancer. As long as I win I don't care. Now that being said, I am instilling that same attitude into my children as well. There is no 2nd place. So if the earth is a dried up dustball in a few hundred years because of our domination of it.....that means WE'RE #1....WE'RE #1........WE'RE#1
                              I feel sorry you feel that way. If that does actually happen, your children or their children or their children will either be

                              A) Dead
                              or
                              B) Trying not to get eaten by Jackals and eating Cacti-fruits.

                              I know I sound harsh there, but those would be the results of a dustball earth (regardless of what was the cause).
                              You took too much, man. Too much. Too much.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by SeventhSon
                                Is Steven Hawking a, b, or c? :ROTF:
                                Last time I checked he was a physicist who had never spent any time teaching or conducing serious study in the area of climate science. Like so many other "scientists" whose opinion the left touts he may be brilliant in his field but his statements here are mere conjecture. Keep it up and you'll do a better job of discrediting the movement you believe in than could any of your opponents.

                                And Wikipedia? Give me a break. Would you like me to edit that entry on the Oregon Petition for you?
                                Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!

                                Comment

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