"I hate theory" - how do you respond?

[PallarAndersVisa]

ok so im trying out guitar players for my band, and I've alraedy come across 2 dudes that apparently "hate" guitar theory. I dont get it? I mean, Im not talking wild exotic modes and odd groupings of 9, but basic major and minor scales. Who the fuck plays guitar for 15 years and doesn't concern themselves with basic scales?

I dont even know how to respond to these people anymore. Basic scale shapes and patterns, basic triads and such, these are just the foundations that I think every guitar player (at least ever metal shredder) needs to know. What am I supposed to say to these guys other than "pack your shit and stop wasting my time" ? lol

[followthereaper]

Tell them to go start a hardcore band.

[Accept2]

Some of the most successful guitar players in history dont know theory. Maybe you should tell them, "Remember me when you are huge and you need a guitar nerd as a tech."........................

[kith]

perhaps respond with a tiny rhyme/poem/rap/whatever

(its title might be "ISBN 0972472304" not sure yet)
guitar theory -
for you a mystery.
stop wasting my time,
for it is perceived a crime!
quit playing fretboard bingo,
learn to speak the theory lingo.

(i know sh*t about theory myself - does that make me a smart ass? )

[thetroy]

Some of the most successful guitar players in history dont know theory. Maybe you should tell them, "Remember me when you are huge and you need a guitar nerd as a tech."........................

They just don't know the terminology. It's not like they don't know what they're doing

(for most that I've heard about, at least)

[Black Mariah]

These are the same people that don't know how to change the oil in their car. I don't know much theory, but if someone says "harmonize this in fourths" I can do it. In other words, I have a WORKING knowledge of theory. When I jam with guys that don't, I get incredibly annoyed and end up Brett Hulling a few on their fingerboards when they aren't looking.

[jgcable]

Theory doesn't mean shit unless you are in a band that plays off of sheet music.
I know more theory players who suck than the ones who do it naturally.
Discussing guitar theory sucks too. Who cares? I don't.
Here is my bold statement for the day.
I consider most theory players "book smart" guitarists.
I'll take a hands on street smart player anyday.
And another thing.... spewing theory to great players who don't know jack about theory but can rip a guitar to shreds makes you look like a pompous ass.
I say keep your theory... professor... to yourself and let your ears make the decision on whether they are good enough for your band.

[nateb]

Theory doesn't mean shit unless you are in a band that plays off of sheet music.
I know more theory players who suck than the ones who do it naturally.
Discussing guitar theory sucks too. Who cares? I don't.
Here is my bold statement for the day.
I consider most theory players "book smart" guitarists.
I'll take a hands on street smart player anyday.
And another thing.... spewing theory to great players who don't know jack about theory but can rip a guitar to shreds makes you look like a pompous ass.
I say keep your theory... professor... to yourself and let your ears make the decision on whether they are good enough for your band.

Although I do not totally agree with you. There is something to be said about a well EXPERIENCED guitarist. I don't think that I would be too far off saying that a streetsmart guitarist is a guitarist that has figured out theory on his own. I totally agree with you when you say that there are some shit book smart guitar players out there. For example, one instructor I ran into was very smart ex-piano teacher gone guitarist. He sucked ass. But, the guy could compose really good peices on the fly. I dont know man... I gotta say one thing. They both have their benifits and to exclude any side would be wrong. Hell, I know enough theory to get myself in trouble. I actually wish I knew more.

-Nate

[Black Mariah]

Theory doesn't mean shit unless you are in a band that plays off of sheet music.

Or if you're in a band with more than one guitarist and like to do harmonies that are in key. Or if you want to change keys. Or if you have to work with a keyboard player, or ANY OTHER INSTRUMENT for that matter... theory matters if you want to do anything but rehash shitty blues licks in some spareass bar.

I know more theory players who suck than the ones who do it naturally.

Do it naturally? Like theory is somehow unnatural. Pure ignorance, dude. The concept of a "theory player" is laughable. You're confusing what should be basic fucking knowledge with the idiocy of playing around scales and a metronome. The two are separate entities and have nothing to do with each other.

I consider most theory players "book smart" guitarists.
I'll take a hands on street smart player anyday.

Strange. I've never known a single player worth a shit that didn't know basic theory. The ones that don't know theory are always lameass blue-based dweebs that can't stray from the pentatonic scale, lest their fingers fall off and their balls rot. My taint quivers in anger every time someone calls those douchebags anything but what they are... DOUCHEBAGS. Hands on street smart my ass. They're just too damn lazy to look beyond what Hendrix and Clapton did nearly 40 years ago.

And another thing.... spewing theory to great players who don't know jack about theory but can rip a guitar to shreds makes you look like a pompous ass.

I have never met a single player that can rip a guitar to shreds that doesn't know what he's doing. Even if they don't have the in-depth knowledge of some shredders, they know the basics.

BTW, I'll gladly put myself up against any "hands on street smart" player you want to roll out.

[VitaminG]

BTW, I'll gladly put myself up against any "hands on street smart" player you want to roll out.

sounds like we is due a headcuttin! BM vs JG!! woot! see you both in the mp3 section

[Ace]

Wow, venom flying in this thread!

I feel that for me, theory is best used to describe what has been written, and not always used to come up with new material. I've been around damn fine guitarists from both schools. I myself fall someplace in between. In fact, when most people hear my style, they call it "middle school".

On one hand too little theory and you have a hard time transcribing, describing, and notating music. It becomes harder to communicate with other musicians.

On the other hand, people who base their playing wholly in theory are usually uninteresting as songwriters. And pompous assholes to boot. I can't tell you how many guitar players I've met that are overburdened with music theory and devoid of any originality or real talent.

The thing we must remember is that music is art. We musicians are artists. The end product is what matters. Good music should connect to your soul, not just look impressive on paper.

I really like the way I am with theory. I played guitar for years before ever taking a lesson. I developed my own style and learned to play by ear, and I find that invaluable. Over the years I've picked up bits and pieces of theory and I use it frequently to flesh out my ideas and communicate with others. However, too much theory and music becomes a math problem, and for me anyways, that's NOT what it's all about.

However, having said that I see both sides of what you guys are saying, and I agree MORE with jgcable, and I must say, BM, you need to take a bong hit or something, brother. None of this shit is worth getting angry over!

[VitaminG]

great post, Ace.

I still want to see a headcuttin, but

[rjohnstone]

Here's my situation...I don't know the terminology, but I know wtf I'm doing.
I've played for 20+ years with my best friend who knows all the verbage, took the classes and read the books.
He also shreds like a mo' fo'.
He just showed me how to play the pregressions and scales and such and I just get it.
So to say I don't know theory would be inaccurate. I just don't know what the hell I'm doing is called.

[Sinistas]

I don't know theory, and I play melodic/progressive metal in clubs around Boston. There goes that blues rock wankery thing...

[Black Mariah]

However, having said that I see both sides of what you guys are saying, and I agree MORE with jgcable, and I must say, BM, you need to take a bong hit or something, brother. None of this shit is worth getting angry over!

Actually, by what you're saying, you agree more with me. Theory is a tool, just like any other part of the guitar. Used wrong, it fucks everything up...

"Okay, we'll play an F# major arpeggio for six and a half bars, then we go to an E dominant Phrygian meta-locrian with basil scale and arpeggiate that in 7/12 while the keys play a G% Burger King mayonnaise with extra aeolian for three bars in 34/2. Everyone got that?"
"Umm... Tim... we're doing 'Blitzkrieg Bop', you anus."

Theory only becomes a math problem when you're fucking it up, or when you're working with other instruments. I use keyboard parts a lot, so even my rudimentary knowledge goes a long way towards making it easier.

In other words, work smarter and not harder.