"I hate theory" - how do you respond?

[Shawn Lutz]

I think theory is very important. I think the problem is that people dont really know how to apply it or use it to their advantage. Its not hard to noodle over a progression to find some notes to work so a lot of people cheat in that regard. I hate when people over analyze music...I can do that myself but its a waste of time.

JG with your 30 years of experience in knocking the sox of people with your elite guitarisms I'm pretty sure you know what your doing and why your doing it...you know what key your in and and what scales to use to remain in key...you just did it a million times and it is second nature. You know the major scale and modes and why they work with certian chords in the progression. You did how you should...learn it, forget thinking and just do it.

I think in terms of metal, rock and neo-classical you should know the major scale, its relative modes and the get to know the sound of them. You should know them and how to build chords off them. You should learn arppegios as well. Of course all of it is useless unless you know how to apply it.

I think both JG and BM are right but not so extreme. You have to have technique and theory in my opinion.

btw...I've never met a player who I thought was good who didnt know basic theory but I met a million and one who knew more theory Mozart but pretty much sucked.....

[OnlineStageGear]

LOL, I have ran across a bunch of players like that. 99% of the time they can get away with penatonic scales but I usually throw them a a riff in something like a# with a Major progression. They think they have it because they just move thier penatonic up or down a fret but wonder why they are out of key 1/2 way through the progression....

Also not knowing your major and minor scales can make figuring out a solo a lot harder.

Matt

[toejam]

HE EATS BABIES

What's the problem with that?!? They taste just like chicken!

[Black Mariah]

LOL, I have ran across a bunch of players like that. 99% of the time they can get away with penatonic scales but I usually throw them a a riff in something like a# with a Major progression. They think they have it because they just move thier penatonic up or down a fret but wonder why they are out of key 1/2 way through the progression....

My point exactly. Seeing guys like that solos over anything but a I-IV-V (in E or A. Anything else is impossible) is vomit-inducing.

I know a lot of the shit I play sounds wrong. I also know WHY it sounds wrong and continue to do so because I like the way it sounds. >

[shredmonster]

Or if you're in a band with more than one guitarist and like to do harmonies that are in key. Or if you want to change keys. Or if you have to work with a keyboard player, or ANY OTHER INSTRUMENT for that matter... theory matters if you want to do anything but rehash shitty blues licks in some spareass bar.

Do it naturally? Like theory is somehow unnatural. Pure ignorance, dude. The concept of a "theory player" is laughable. You're confusing what should be basic fucking knowledge with the idiocy of playing around scales and a metronome. The two are separate entities and have nothing to do with each other.

Strange. I've never known a single player worth a shit that didn't know basic theory. The ones that don't know theory are always lameass blue-based dweebs that can't stray from the pentatonic scale, lest their fingers fall off and their balls rot. My taint quivers in anger every time someone calls those douchebags anything but what they are... DOUCHEBAGS. Hands on street smart my ass. They're just too damn lazy to look beyond what Hendrix and Clapton did nearly 40 years ago.

I have never met a single player that can rip a guitar to shreds that doesn't know what he's doing. Even if they don't have the in-depth knowledge of some shredders, they know the basics.

BTW, I'll gladly put myself up against any "hands on street smart" player you want to roll out.

Could not have said it better myself - perfect dude. The guys that always argue that you don't have to know theory will never know how good they could have been had they learned it.

You think Malmsteem, Gilber, Vai etc... don't know theory people? EVH learned piano before guitar. He did not take GUITAR lessons but he knew music theory - you have to to play piano.

Take 2 players just as skilled one of them knows all the scales, arps etc... The other knows pantatonics. No contest. None. Period.

Go to a doctor who never went to school and learned his craft. Man I hate to get into the theory thing because there are always guys that say you don't need it, this guitarist and that guitarist never learned it etc...

If any one of you guys who does not think you need to know theory actually learned it - you would never make an argument against it again.

Same as the guy quoted here. I will rip to shreds any one of the "street smart hands on" players. I have done it many times before. They just have this look of amazement as I burn up and down the fretboard horizontally, vertically and diagonally using multiple scales, blazing 7th arpeggios, string skipping - tying them all together with my "theory."

[fett]

As Einstein said: Theory is all relative. Or something like that. I guess the proof is in the poof that comes out of the guitar. The great old guitar players that invented down-home blues and "primitive" rock just sat around and used their ears and the fretboard to make the music we have been repeating for decades. Music theory is a tool . And it works great if you are reading music or composing a symphony. Rock and Roll, regardless of the form, was created by people, who didn't know shit about theory. They played from the heart and about 3 chords.

[Sinistas]

The pissing match this thread has become is outrageous. I'd love to learn theory, to help me play some wild stuff here and there...But I don't want to have to think about whether what I'm playing is "right" or not. As far as being "smoked" by people who know theory, sure, I could probably be smoked by anybody...but I play music for my personal enjoyment, not to prove how wonderful of a guitarist I am.

[mpigott]

+1

[Sinistas]

Khaaaan!

[jgcable]

OK, I concede. Knowing theory is better than not knowing it BUT.... not if its at the expense of knowing how to apply it.
Most of the theory players I know suck because they read more than they practice. In other words... they can't apply the theory.
Sure.. I know what I am playing when I am playing it but I attribute it to repetition as opposed to studying theory. The saying goes if you throw enough shit against the wall something will eventually stick.

[fett]

Khaaaan!

Denny Crane!!! It took me a long time to that figure that out. Sorry, Donnie, I beat you to it.

[RacerX]

I will rip to shreds any one of the "street smart hands on" players. I have done it many times before. They just have this look of amazement as I burn up and down the fretboard horizontally, vertically and diagonally using multiple scales, blazing 7th arpeggios, string skipping - tying them all together with my "theory."

OK that is the THIRD challenge I have read in this thread!

Let's have you guys record some amazing shit and I will see it in the MP3 section. Step up!

To make it more interesting, I will send a free prize to the first of the 3 from this thread to post a new MP3 that shows off what they bragged about - ie, I want to hear you, shreddermon "burn up and down the fretboard horizontally, vertically and diagonally using multiple scales, blazing 7th arpeggios, string skipping"

I'll also send a free prize to the "winner" - that is, all 3 of you play....I listen, then determine which one of you "ripped"

That's right I am calling out Black Mariah, jgcable, and shreddermon. Put your MP3 where your mouth is!

[Shawn Lutz]

lets cut some heads!

Just remember what the Karate Kid had to revert to to beat the devil...his honkin, boogie, woogie, non-theory blues based stuff wasnt cuttin it...he had to go back to his classical roots to keep his soul.

[Freehill]

Music theory is a tool for teaching music. A structured learning approach which breaks down music into concepts that people can understand. Not everyone is blessed with perfect pitch. and an inherent knack for playing musical instruments. Once you learn to play, theory tends to take a back seat.

Personally I think any musician should at least be able to read music, and know the major scale.

[PallarAndersVisa]

But I don't want to have to think about whether what I'm playing is "right" or not.

when you know your shit, theres no "thinking" involved. it comes to you naturally after you learn it, and you have so much more cool stuff to do because of it.