"I hate theory" - how do you respond?

[xenophobe]

Go to a doctor who never went to school and learned his craft. Man I hate to get into the theory thing because there are always guys that say you don't need it, this guitarist and that guitarist never learned it etc...

Bad analogy. REALLY bad.

So, I shouldn't drive because I'm not NASCAR Certified?

I shouldn't voice my opinion because I'm not an English Major?

I shouldn't operate a computer because I don't have a CS degree? (actually I do :p )

Music is ART. Sure, there is a mathematical science to it, but there is a high degree of artisitc ability as well. Knowing theory does not give you artistic ability. Theory can help compensate, sure, but it is not the end all. Listen to computer generated music.

Music theory is a tool for teaching music. A structured learning approach which breaks down music into concepts that people can understand. Not everyone is blessed with perfect pitch. and an inherent knack for playing musical instruments. Once you learn to play, theory tends to take a back seat.

Best paragraph in this whole thread!

[Black Mariah]

OK that is the THIRD challenge I have read in this thread!

Let's have you guys record some amazing shit and I will see it in the MP3 section. Step up!

To make it more interesting, I will send a free prize to the first of the 3 from this thread to post a new MP3 that shows off what they bragged about - ie, I want to hear you, shreddermon "burn up and down the fretboard horizontally, vertically and diagonally using multiple scales, blazing 7th arpeggios, string skipping"

I'll also send a free prize to the "winner" - that is, all 3 of you play....I listen, then determine which one of you "ripped"

That's right I am calling out Black Mariah, jgcable, and shreddermon. Put your MP3 where your mouth is!

I posted up some stuff here. This isn't my "official" entry though. I'll have to work on that over the next couple of weeks. It's literally been months since I played a lot so my speed and stamina is TOAST right now. I need to get back into shape before I can start cutting anyone's head. lol

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=735772#post735772

[atomic charvel guy]

I have been blessed with a killer ear. It really helped me in my progression up the ladder. But in the end, it's what comes out of the speakers that counts, to quote Keith Richards. It either sucks or it's great, it just depends on who's listening and what they like. I like all kinds of music, but blues based music is fukkin' great stuff, and if you knock it, you knock rock and roll in general. You gotta have a groove in the tune for me. All the music we have arrived to has at least started from the blues as far as rock and roll goes. I like jazz, , i like disco, i like missing persons, i like mozart, i like sinatra. But when I play,
i use my ear, my slippery fingers , and yes, some blues based licks along with other lines as well. Don't know much theory, but I can swing when I'm in shape.

[jcm800x]

Nothing hurts my ears more than some noob playing a pentatonic minor scale over a major blues vamp! If that is the only pattern he/she knows than I will quickly move their hand down a step and 1/2 so at least they are in key! My best friend hardly knows theory but he has perfect pitch, you'll never hear a sour note out of his hands! I know quite a bit of theory and he has shown me MANY exotic riffs that he can hear in his head. If your an average guy like me then learn some theory! If you were 'born with IT' than fuck it! You'll always be right!

[Accept2]

Star Trek: Voyager once had a kick ass episode about this very topic. It was about aliens that never heard music and the absolute garbage that they produce when they became theory pushers..............

[MichaelLitvak]

i dont like theory much but my teacher keeps on making me learn and know all scales and keys.. because i will need it in the future.. only been playing for a year.. i can play i can solo i know notes on the fretboard..
but im having some trouble with scales and keys cuz its just boring for me but i still keep on doing it
i can play great i got the technique but i have this feeling inside me that im missing so much because i dont know theory.. and thats y im learning it

[atomic charvel guy]

if you have good fingers already, learn the theory, you'll be happier for it in the end. having the ability to adapt at the drop of a hat gives you a great advantage over other guitarists, especially todays up and coming index finger two note tuned down to q-minor chord masters. i wish i learned theory growing up, but i pulled it off anyway. I suggest learn as much as you can.

[bibz]

I cant say I totally dismiss theory, the basics are there of course, and I know the frets very well, but I just dont care about it. I come from the dimebag school of rock, grab the guitar, let it feedback for 10 minutes, and bow down to the coolest and best instrument there is out there! To me it seems detrimental to the instrument to compare it to a piano, and hold it in a classical or traditional musical sense. This is a Jackson/Charvel forum, we are here to rock the fuck out or brutalise the metal scene. I've spent my time on the guitar primarily on technique and knowing what sounds good to my ears. I dont wanna know where and why I'm playing what I do, I just wanna play it! I dont wanna sound like joe sixpack, OR joe sixtheoreticalchordprogessions. Players like Dime, Chuck, never cared for theory, and there the most unique sonsabitches to have played. I'm sure Slayer aren't backstage going 'I think that passage was too modal, lay back off the lydian'.
That said I'm also a major Loomis and Satriani fan. I really do think technique can help a player, but I garuntee it wont MAKE you a player. You've gotta find your sound and style before you go fucking up creativity and making rules for yourself. Once you know where you're going, you can use theory to help you get there.

I just nailed the end sweeping parts of This Godless Endeavor. Fucking stoked, but my fave guitar lead is still Floods and its outro.

and christ that banned ballchin douchebag needs a fuckin bullet. Get over yourself, you suck! Luckily I know plenty of jcf'ers on both sides of this fence that can shred, cause this guy makes as good a case for theory as a hummer makes for fuel conservation!

[SoCal]

It`s nice to know that if I turn to a player, and tell him "It`s a i-VI-iv-V in the key of C#m, that it will come together quicker, but in regards to the original question...I say just jam and if they can figure out what key it`s in and make it sound good,well the nu might have yourself a band member...most of the guys who have been playing long enough ARE playing the triads and 7th`s and modes and such, they just don`t know what the hell it`s called...if it hinders them, well at least don`t let it slow you down, but give em a chance.(IMHO) good luck....dime a dozen!

[SoCal]

just an after thought here...might it be fair to say that this issue is the difference between being just a guitar player and being a musician?!
.................the fuse is lit .......................let the sparks fly!

[atomic charvel guy]

that could be fair to say, but then you have a guy like george lynch who wasn't much of a theory guy and he's a musician. I know what you're saying though SoCal, where are you located out here? then again, I wonder if guys like george lynch say they are not theory filled on purpose when they actually are and are trying to be cool by dodging it? Who knows? I do know that I get off when I play my magic gold sparkle Elvis machine, it never dissappoints.

[MichaelLitvak]

if you have good fingers already, learn the theory, you'll be happier for it in the end. having the ability to adapt at the drop of a hat gives you a great advantage over other guitarists, especially todays up and coming index finger two note tuned down to q-minor chord masters. i wish i learned theory growing up, but i pulled it off anyway. I suggest learn as much as you can.

(assuming you were replying to me)

yep i got fast fingers i can play, but all i can play is songs i learn and digg the pentatonic scales.. which gets boring once in a while
learning theory sux, its frustrating and it gets hard sometimes but i beilive its gonna be worth it

[shredmonster]

Bad analogy. REALLY bad.

So, I shouldn't drive because I'm not NASCAR Certified?

I shouldn't voice my opinion because I'm not an English Major?

I shouldn't operate a computer because I don't have a CS degree? (actually I do :p )

Music is ART. Sure, there is a mathematical science to it, but there is a high degree of artisitc ability as well. Knowing theory does not give you artistic ability. Theory can help compensate, sure, but it is not the end all. Listen to computer generated music.



Best paragraph in this whole thread!

Bad analogy huh?
So you can drive as good as a NASCAR guy - you could actually get out there and compete in a race?

You could write a book without knowing how to spell, without knowing much grammer, vocabulary or how to relate and communicate in words?

You could program a computer or be a software engineer too?

See its all about how good you want to be on guitar. Thats all.

Take the word theory out of it. That word seems to scare a lot of people. Lets call it connect the dots. You can come up with a lot more things and improvise on the fly when you know where all the dots are.

Are you arguing knowing less is better than knowing more given all other things being equal?

This is not an argument about feeling and artistic this or that. The question is this: is knowing less better than knowing more?

Thats the essence of the thread. I say its better to know more.

[charvelguy]

Theory doesn't mean shit unless you are in a band that plays off of sheet music.
I know more theory players who suck than the ones who do it naturally.
Discussing guitar theory sucks too. Who cares? I don't.
Here is my bold statement for the day.
I consider most theory players "book smart" guitarists.
I'll take a hands on street smart player anyday.
And another thing.... spewing theory to great players who don't know jack about theory but can rip a guitar to shreds makes you look like a pompous ass.
I say keep your theory... professor... to yourself and let your ears make the decision on whether they are good enough for your band.

I agree with you.. to a degree.

People who have a natural talent, ear, and ability that have put TIME into their craft and are true to perfecting it (that which they hear in their head) typically are ones who learn 'theory' after the fact. Some sides had to teach BB King theory when he was a band leader in order to be on the same page musically. I recall seeing that Allan Holdsworth is one who doesn't read like a studio musician..when he did the Jean Luc Ponty gig.. he did read chord charts.
I respect people who can read & play off sheet music fluently like reading from pages of a book...and it does help to know how music is structured when you learn it by ear.. or compose in your head and go to notate it on paper, LCD or computer..whatever you may use.

[~K~]

Theory isn't a bad thing to know .. if you take the time to learn it more power to ya ..

I have had limited theory over the years .. I started out playing keys at the age of 9 and moved to the guitar at the age of 13. Back then I could sight read .. I've lost that ability by not keeping up with it ..

Theory itself is lost on me to some degree .. again I have a ltd knowledge of it...

Being from the Boston area I can say this.. I've played with plenty of Berkley guys who knew their shit .. but at the end of the day didn't have an ounce of feel ... so it comes down to natural abilty vs education and time served ..

Theory is a good thing but not the end all . Ask most rock musicians over the last 30 years and you will find the majoriity do not know a thing ..

Think 3 Chord Angus is a bad example?