"I hate theory" - how do you respond?

[shredmonster]

I posted up some stuff here. This isn't my "official" entry though. I'll have to work on that over the next couple of weeks. It's literally been months since I played a lot so my speed and stamina is TOAST right now. I need to get back into shape before I can start cutting anyone's head. lol

http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/show...772#post735772

To Racer X:

I have 2 of them in the mp3 section under jams. They have been there for a while. They are all on the fly - nothing planned at all - all improvisation using what I am talking about. In fact the sound is not the greatest because we recorded just a jam not any songs we do so we were not going for top quality sound on these.
Listen to the whole thing not just the first minute. They Organic Jam as I called it particularly came out with great improvisation and morphed back and forth at the end. Totally improvised by myself and my friend who also knows his shit. I was soloing on both and but my friend can do the same type of improvisation because we both understand how to connect the dots.

But thats still not the point. The point is - are you arguing it is better to know less as opposed to knowing more about what you are doing.

Its like the bully in the street - "Oh yeah lets fight then" - because he can't win the argument. Go ahead take a listen. But my point is still the same - I say its better to know more about connecting the dots than less.

Then there are the people who are trying to take the scenario: Oh yeah I ran into this guy or that guy who knew how to shred but had no feel...
Completely missing the point of this thread again because that is a tangent.
The argument is not that theory is an end all. The argument is not about artistry or vibrato or feeling you put into playing.

GIVEN ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL is it better to know more or less about what you are doing. Is it better to know how to connect the dots or not. Period. Its a simple question. That is the question - the point of the thread.

Answer me this - how good would Steve Vai be without knowing what he knows?
How good would Yngwie be without understanding counterpoint and the harmonic minor scale?
How good would Jason Becker have been without knowing the notes that make up the many arpeggios he used? Paul Gilbert? Reb Beach? Bret Garsed? Rusty Cooley, George Bellas - etc...
The guys at the top know the stuff. That is part of being that good.

[Sinistas]

I don't think anybody is arguing that knowing more isn't a bad thing. People are arguing the notion that you're a lesser guitarist if you don't know theory.

[Sinistas]

Unfortunately, it's also those same great players that combine knowledge AND feel. That's what makes them great. A lot of people go for theory first and forget about feel. I think I'm the opposite...My favorite lead players are Gilmour and Clapton, who not many people who play metal these days are trying to emulate. There are millions of people out there who could out-shred me 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, but they wouldn't write my solos. Knowledge is power, but only if you know how to harness it. Eventually, I'll go down that road, and become more of a "complete" guitarist.

I'm not unhappy with where I'm at now. Regardless of what Banned Mariah claims, there's no other band in New England who sounds like Dreaded Silence. I think my personal style is one reason for that, and I'd take that over theory any day.

[shredmonster]

Unfortunately, it's also those same great players that combine knowledge AND feel. That's what makes them great. A lot of people go for theory first and forget about feel. I think I'm the opposite...My favorite lead players are Gilmour and Clapton, who not many people who play metal these days are trying to emulate. There are millions of people out there who could out-shred me 7 days a week and twice on Sunday, but they wouldn't write my solos. Knowledge is power, but only if you know how to harness it. Eventually, I'll go down that road, and become more of a "complete" guitarist.

I'm not unhappy with where I'm at now. Regardless of what Banned Mariah claims, there's no other band in New England who sounds like Dreaded Silence. I think my personal style is one reason for that, and I'd take that over theory any day.

I agree 100% dude. You have to have balance above all else.

There are 2 ways to improve.
One is mechanics - vibrato, speed, all that stuff.

The other is musically - knowing how to change the chords, flavors, colors.
This is where theory comes in.

I played pentatonics for 15 years and I still love pentatonic players like Schenker who is one of my favorite guitarists.

But once I learned theory it opened up doors that I did not even know existed. And what I am saying is anyone can and will benefit if they understand more about connecting the dots.

[Sinistas]

Agreed. My band's other guitarist is far more "schooled" than I am, and it shows. Right now, that helps, because we each have our own sound and we balance each other out pretty well.

[texasfury]

Theory only helps you understand. It won't improve your technique, it won't help you create. If you don't have a creative ounce in your body, all the theory in the world won't help you write a good tune. On the other hand, for someone who is truly creative, theory will help them grasp new ideas quicker.

Remember, it's what ultimately comes out of the 4x12 that counts, not what's in your head.

[VulfgangPfuck]

I have Zero theory...

I do, however have a nearly perfect RELATIVE pitch...not PERFECT pitch. Perfect pitch is a misnomer for most people that only possess relative pitch.
I know my way around the neck. I've learned chords, shapes, scales, harmonies in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc...(by way of relative pitch) and all by watching and hearing them.
I can play a song I've never heard before back on the guitar after hearing it 2 or 3 times, almost note for note like a tape recorder. I've had that ability almost as long as I've been playing since I was about 6 years old when I was entertaining my family playing Elvis tunes.

I'm not a shredder by any means, but I've always believed in one's style could differ greatly from another. It's like comparing James Taylor to Yngwie....see where I'm going?

I've always fiddled with playing fast, and can play certain scales pretty fast, moderate speed. But I choose to keep most of my lead playing slower with a little more feeling. Sure...it's great to have theory behind you...and then forget it, and play the guitar with your heart, and your balls (no pun intended). Wish I had taken theory when I had the chance.

[Ace]

Fuck this thread. I want a burrito.

[RacerX]

[Ace]

Thanks Ron!!

[PallarAndersVisa]

I have Zero theory...

I do, however have a nearly perfect RELATIVE pitch...not PERFECT pitch. Perfect pitch is a misnomer for most people that only possess relative pitch.
I know my way around the neck. I've learned chords, shapes, scales, harmonies in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, etc...(by way of relative pitch) and all by watching and hearing them.
I can play a song I've never heard before back on the guitar after hearing it 2 or 3 times, almost note for note like a tape recorder. I've had that ability almost as long as I've been playing since I was about 6 years old when I was entertaining my family playing Elvis tunes.

I'm not a shredder by any means, but I've always believed in one's style could differ greatly from another. It's like comparing James Taylor to Yngwie....see where I'm going?

I've always fiddled with playing fast, and can play certain scales pretty fast, moderate speed. But I choose to keep most of my lead playing slower with a little more feeling. Sure...it's great to have theory behind you...and then forget it, and play the guitar with your heart, and your balls (no pun intended). Wish I had taken theory when I had the chance.

you know zero theory but you can play all those scales, chords, intervals and all those songs? doesnt make sense, s ounds like you know a shitload of theory, just not the names and terms.

Knowing a pentatonic scale is theory, everyone knows some theory.

[VulfgangPfuck]

you know zero theory but you can play all those scales, chords, intervals and all those songs? doesnt make sense, s ounds like you know a shitload of theory, just not the names and terms.

Knowing a pentatonic scale is theory, everyone knows some theory.

Well I considered theory to be quite a bit more than I know. I don't know the reason a 5th works with a root, and such. I don't know the meanings behind certain scales and how to use them and make them work within a melody...etc...

That's what I always thought theory was.

[jgcable]

Here are 2 samples of my playing

"King" is something I whipped up around a year ago. It took me about 10 minutes to record it. It shows alot of my influences. Its not that technical but I like the degree of aggression it has.
JCFJAM1 is my contribution to our first JCF jam compilation. I included it because it has some pretty cool stuff in it. I tried to touch on many different styles and tricks in a very short amount of time.
http://www.mp3unsigned.com/mp3s.asp

[LouSiffer]

Here is what I know about theory: You only need the top 3 or 4 strings and need to know about 3 chords ( E, A and F# )....everything else is just over-rated. I never was very good at mashing the little strings down and playing fast way up high on the neck. Another good piece of theory is that bendy-bar thingy....that makes you sound like you are really good. I love the bendy bar theory.
And the delay theory...just in case you still have the bottom two string tied up onto the guitar, it makes you sound like you are playing notes even faster and helps out when you sometimes hit a note, but, it gets all lazy and stuff....but, the delay helps the other notes cover it.....just like team work.......that delay theory is some good theory right there. -Lou

[VitaminG]

your ideas intrigue me - I wish to subscribe to your newsletter