E-85 Flex Fuel?????????

[slayer]

Ok, one of our gas stations near my house has just started offering E85 Flex fuel. So what vehicles is this safe to use in? I have a 1993 Dodge Dakota and a 2000 Chevy Prism. I would like to use it ias it is .20 cents less than the regular unleaded price Jack.

[rjohnstone]

E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline.
Only engines built to run on 85% Ethanol can use it.
The new Chevy Tahoe for example, can run on it.
Do not put it in either of the two cars you mentioned.

[slayer]

OK man, I won`t kill my cars I thought it was the other way around, like 85% Gas-15% Ethanol. Thank God I asked first I like the fact that it is .20 Cents less a gallon ovewr the regular unleaded stuff. Jack.

[RacerX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

[slayer]

Thanks Ron, very cool article Jack.

[DonP]

It kills your fuel economy so badly that you'll loose money on the deal. It needs to be about 2/3 the price of gas before you break even. And then you have to fuel up more often = PITA.

[YetAnotherOne]

It kills your fuel economy so badly that you'll loose money on the deal. It needs to be about 2/3 the price of gas before you break even. And then you have to fuel up more often = PITA.

Yep, don't be suckered by the $0.20/gallon price difference, your MPG will be about 25% lower in an E85 vehicle. Dad has a dual fuel gasoline/E85 truck and other than one test tank has never bothered with E85 for that very reason.

[slayer]

Wow, I wonder why it is like that? The Octane rating is the same-right? Jack.

[rjohnstone]

The octane rating is higher than premium... E85 is rated at 105
It all has to do with the fuel management system program in the ECM.
You can get kickin' gas mileage from E85 with a programming change.
That's the problem with Flex Fuel vehicles... they're still programmed for gasoline.
All they do is dump more gas when they detect the higher oxygen content from the E85.
The ECM thinks the engine is running lean so it pumps more gas.. the reality is, it's running better, but the ECM doesn't "understand" that there has been a fuel change.
It's a programming problem, not a fuel problem.

And yes... I think the automakers do this on purpose.
What they need is a button or switch on the dash that you can push that will call up a a proper program for the E85 fuel.

[RobRR]

Its got an octan rating of about 105... bad for gas mielage, great for us high compression guys.

[slayer]

Wow, never knew that. 105 Octane is very good, my brothers `66
Charger`s 383 would love it!! I know it can`t use it ofcourse. I agree on the new Flex Fuel vehicles, they nead a button when they use the different fuels. I think in the next 5-10 years, most all vehicles will be Flex Fuel and probably have that button or a computer that can tell the difference. Jack.

[slayer]

Its got an octan rating of about 105... bad for gas mielage, great for us high compression guys.

Rob, won`t the E85 hurt your engine if it isn`t set up for it? Jack.

[SeventhSon]

During the last oil crisis in the 70's, Brazil embarked on a nationwide ethanol program and today they have declared themselves free from OPEC.

They use sugarcane which converts to ethanol much more efficiently than corn (thus cheaper). But we tariff the shit out of Brazilian ethanol to protect our fledgling ethanol industry.

[RobRR]

Rob, won`t the E85 hurt your engine if it isn`t set up for it? Jack.

Yes, I would not run more than 20% e85 on a non-e85 tuned vehicle. Thats not to say that a non e85 car cant be tuned to run on it though. DIY vehicle tuning is becoming very big. Now personally, Id throw it on a dyno with a wideband and go to town.

[YetAnotherOne]

It all has to do with the fuel management system program in the ECM.
You can get kickin' gas mileage from E85 with a programming change.
That's the problem with Flex Fuel vehicles... they're still programmed for gasoline.

Yes and no. It's absolutely true the flex fuel vehicles aren't as efficient as they could be when running on E85 but it's also absolutely true that a gallon of E85 contains a little less than 30% less potential energy than a gallon of gasoline. The basic physics says that 30% less energy means that you should expect to go 30% less distance on a gallon of E85 than on a gallon of gasoline, no amount of reprogramming can change that bit of basic science. Ethanol just has less energy per gallon than gasoline so as compared to a gasoline vehicle you'll always have to burn more E85 to go a comparable distance in a comparable vehicle. That said I'm a big fan of ethanol, it's a nice subsidy for dad's farm.