Gun Talk

[RacerX]

This whole thread -->>>>


And now for even MORE humor:




Oh and Em: YOWZA!!!

[straycat]

Nothing like hearing Puff come screaming over the hill with the mini guns blazeing and watching cows,oxen,gooks run their asses off and not making it very far.Thank you General Electric.

[xenophobe]

Read my sig bitches...

Guns are good.

[horns666]

Too late Bill, somebody already posted that shot of you:



:ROTF:

WTF???!!!

[horns666]

Xeno is waiting ever so patiently for the revolution..

Rich, that's too bad, yeah they're great guns..you need new friends!!

Ron is begging to be tasered by local police!

[bratfink]

Well, dude... I don't want be an asshole to you, but your comments of why and when our 2nd was introduced is a bit off. No history lesson though, but please do feel free to find facts on the whole "marauding indian" bit of our history if you want to discuss it.

Yes, it was a short point to illustrate the debate, I don't need to tell you your own history (or at least I shouldn't).

I think you may be under the impression pro gun Americans wants everyone to carry guns. That's not in any way true. In fact you're partially correct stating that's dangerous, but I'll say again guns are not the only source of violence, guns are not the problem

Agreed, but with an added word, Guns are not the ONLY problem.

Gun control? Hmmm how about real penalties for violent crimes!? You're also missing the fact that criminals have more rights here than law abiding citizens.

A familiar topic in this country. We have major problems with criminals getting away with too much. The general view is that we should take a more proactive approach to law enforcement, the US is often sited as an example of strong legal doctrine (the death penalty for example).

Since you want to argue why we don't need guns over here how about if I argue why you do. I do not pretend to know a great deal about your country or history, laws, etc., but I seem to remember the IRA being a pain in the ass over there. If people carried to protect themselves and their country against invading forces perhaps that whole saga would have been nipped pretty quick or perhaps those subway bombings wouldn't have happened.

Low blow! The IRA and the Loyalist paramilitaries since they were not memebers of a commisioned army were by definition civilians. By your reckoning they would have had the right to carry guns! It's a bit hard for the security forces to tell who is a terrorist and who isn't if they are all carrying! Also since they were engaged in terrorist activities it was extrememly rare for them to stand and fight in the traditional sense. They much prefered the ambush or 'stick a bomb under your car' approach. Giving other civilians the right to carry arms would do them no good in those circumstances, Just as it did for the 5000 odd poor people in the twin towers.

[bratfink]

It's a cornerstone of our nation and will never be changed. Again, it's how we got your lot off our ass taking our tax dollars for nothing back in 1776.

Yes we addressed that point already, don't labour it.

Also, our country is still not a tame little park like yours is.

The Times ran a story a few months back looking at global crime rates. South Africa tops the pole on gun crime (percentages not absolute numbers). One interesteing fact it did reveal is that you are more likely to be mugged/assaulted in London than you are in all but the worst US cities. However if you add a gun to the mix, the gun related crime is way higher in the US.

There are stretches here larger than your country that are wilderness.

Whats that got to do with the price of fish??? There are farms in Australia that are larger than any one of your states (not Alaska, before you chirp up). I don't see the relevence.

The fact you'd think police here are actually capable of protection before the fact shows you don't know much about conditions in the US.

Well their moto is 'protect and serve'. I am well aware of the inadequacies of modern policing, but their job description is to protect the public.

Crime statistics here show that the more restrictive gun control laws in a state or city, the higher the crime rate is.

I didn't know that, and I must say that is the first piece of actual information that has actually been of benefit to the debate.

Don't assume that what works for you works for everyone else.

Please tell me you can see the irony in that statment!!!! The reverse of that statement more or less forms the entire of the Bush admistrations foreign policy!

[bratfink]

Some people here seem to be reacting negatively to my attempts to open up an even and interesting debate.

I am not against anyone here, and I am certainly not as left wing as you seem to imply. I was merely trying to introduce a different view and one that isn't necessarily mine. Think 'Devil's Advocate'.

I can see the merits and problems associated with carrying firearms and I was kinda hoping that we would have a decent debate on all views and aspects. Ho Hum, you can't blame a guy for trying.

I think it has more or less run it's course unless someone has something to say other than 'Guns rule, Britain sucks. I'll shoot anyone who doesn't agree' (Joke, no-one actually said that! ).

I'll now go back to admiring that pic of Emthrax, very nice

[RacerX]

Well their moto is 'protect and serve'.

Actually, it's usually a Kawasaki KZ1000, but a lot of forces use the new BMW RT1150. Badumpshh!


Anyway...The LAPD's motto is "To protect and serve" - not every US police force.

[xenophobe]

Bratfink, your logic is flawed.

"Handgun crime 'up' despite ban"

A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

But the report suggests that despite the restrictions on ownership the use of handguns in crime is rising.

It also said there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where there were still high levels of lawful gun possession.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

BTW, there is no such thing as "gun crime" or "car crime" or even "knife crime". In the history of the world, no inanimate object has ever committed a crime. Criminals perpetuate crime. Inanimate objects do not coerce criminal acts.

One interesteing fact it did reveal is that you are more likely to be mugged/assaulted in London than you are in all but the worst US cities. However if you add a gun to the mix, the gun related crime is way higher in the US.

I call bullshit on that. You're also more likely to be robbed with a gun in the UK now that they're banned.

One in 10 Britons have been affected by gun crime or know someone else who has been in the past five years, a survey shows. In a poll for the Control Arms Campaign, 11% said either they, relatives or acquaintances had personally experienced Britain's firearms problem.
The figure was 14% for men compared with just 8% of women.
The highest figures were in the London and North regions (both 16%)

http://www.blacknet.co.uk/component/...,254/Itemid,1/


The Centre for Defence Studies at Kings College in London, which carried out the research, said the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm

There were 9,974 incidents involving firearms in the 12 months to April 2002 - a rise from 7,362 over the previous year.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2640817.stm

There were 10,878 firearms offences recorded by police last year (2005), a slight dip from 11,191 in the previous 12 months.
http://www.blacknet.co.uk/component/...,254/Itemid,1/


Wow... look at that, since guns were pretty much completely banned in the UK, gun related violence rose from 2,648 (1997), 3,685 (1999), 7,362 (2001), 9,974 (2002), 11,191 (2004), 10,878 (2005).

Gun control works...

....for the criminals' prosperity.

[STLKINGV]

Racer X- Nice mullet!

Xeno- Awesome cache you have there!!!

Bratfink- I dont believe that this new thread was started so that you could continue your "Debate".

As I read your last post, I realized that you had to bring up: "Please tell me you can see the irony in that statment!!!! The reverse of that statement more or less forms the entire of the Bush admistrations foreign policy!"

Let's not fuck around with politics and get this thread locked as well..........

Now, back to guns:


Nothing but smiles!!!!


Keep it in the 10-Ring!


Working on proper form!

A~

[Rsmacker]

Crimes involving guns have undeniably gone up in this country since handguns were outlawed, but don't take all of those figures too literally. It's bad, and getting worse, but it's not total mayhem yet!

A "Firearms Offence" can involve anything from a water pistol upwards. There have been several cases lately of people dragged from their cars by armed police after someone has reported seeing a gun in the car, only for it to be found to be a water pistol or a cap-gun. (One of the by-products of demonising guns, when somebody sees a toy, they freak and call in the Rozzers.) Kids in gardens with toy guns have been nicked, as have people with cigarette lighters after passers-by reported them. One poor geezer was shot dead by police when he staggered out of a pub pissed up with a table leg wrapped up in plastic bag - some dick-head assumed it was a sawn-off shotgun and made the call. They filled him with that much lead, they were even shooting at the soles of his feet as he hit the deck!
If the Armed Response Vehicle is called, then a Firearms Offence is logged even if it turns out no actual firearms are involved. (Holding up a bank with a water pistol is still armed robbery, regardless no gun is used)

Xenophobe, you'd be surprised how bad London is these days. Having been all round the world, I feel less safe in London (or Londonistan) than almost anywhere else on my travels, though only in the past few years. It's not really an English speaking city any more, there are large immigrant communities who do their own thing, it's wierd to feel like an outsider in your own capital city!
Certain groups of people don't really give a shit for UK law, and I know for a FACT that Eastern Europeans have brought in far more firearms completely unchecked than have ever been seized by the police after gun laws were tightened. (You do get the odd old boy who croaks and then they find a Vickers or Bren gun in his shed that's been there since VE Day, but that's OK in my book! I yearn to find someone with some WW2 loot stashed away!!!) That influx of criminal elements from Eastern Europe has caused the biggest rise in the use of guns in crime - in the good old days it was tasty geezers with sawn-off shotguns used to blag banks, now it is Ivan with his semi-auto pistols selling large bags of smack.

The world has changed, but the UK's laws are (as ever) way behind. Outlawing guns just made many law-abiding, responsible sporting shooters have to surrender their guns, or send them abroad. Or, as in my mate's case, change over to using black powder charges (Anyone explain this, I know nothing about it, apart from the carts look the same to me, but they are loaded with different stuff??) to get round the law. The blanket banning of handguns after the Dunblane massacre was a knee-jerk reaction which has only given firearms more of a cool, dangerous image and increased the mystique for those who might be susceptible to causing trouble with them. (Far more effective would have been banning of Freemasonry before those terrible shootings, then the dick that did it wouldn't have had his gun licence renewed). We should be encouraging education and safety with guns, not trying to put the genie that is the advent of mass produced cheap guns back in the bottle and pretending that all guns are bad.

One final thought, a textbook definition of a Police State is one where the Police are armed but the population is forbidden to have any guns. That's where it starts. Next thing is people are being hauled in for questioning after expressing their religious belief that homosexuality is wrong....oh hang on, we've already had that! And we know where that leads, don't we..........??

[Rsmacker]

Hey STLKINGV, tell him to keep his other eye open!

[Emthrax]

What a way to REPRESENT, Xeno!!! Yessss.

Guns are good.

[Emthrax]

Ron! You sexy mofo!

This whole thread -->>>>


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