Saddam execution order upheld....thoughts?

[St.James]

I want to say one more thing before I drop out of this conversation for good...

Murder is wrong and I don't care what name it's labeled as. Taking a human life for any reason is the worse thing anyone can do. I don't like or believe in causing the death of a human in any way, form or fashion.

Now, let's define human. To me a human is one who follows very basic rules of humanity, one being do not take the life of other humans! When someone willingly and knowingly murders, may it be one person or scores, that person ceases to be human and becomes a beast. Anyone who fights for the rights of a beast should be forced to sit with a victims grieving family and see the victims dead body in the morgue before it's cleaned up. Just imagine that being your child, parents, wife or anyone you love and cherish... Maybe that harsh, grotesque reality will stop the flow from a little bleeding heart and believe me I do pray no one ever has to suffer a loss like that. If you do and you still feel a murderer deserves to continue breathing you need your head examined.

So what do you do with the beasts who violates normal peoples right to live. The trash that takes it upon themselves to destroy the most precious thing one can be given? You remove them and their burden on society. Murderers do not deserve pity, they do not deserve to live, even if their life is spent locked in a cage 23 hours a day.

Saddam was sentenced to death for the murder of 148 people, probably many more, and as of right now he will not see the new year. They want him gone fast!

I find it troubling ANYONE would defend that mother fucker!

I also find it all out disturbing and disgusting someone here actually says that if given the chance he'd do nothing to the piece shit that just took his family right in front of him in cold blooded murder! What kind of mind processes thoughts like that?

Someone breaks into your home you kill that mother fucker before they have the chance to ever even see your family! Plain and simple!

I'm not saying I wouldn't be torn apart killing someone, but there's no way I could or would continue living knowing I let the killer of my family walk.

As far as the Saddam topic goes. He's a communist dictator, a tyrant, and a murdering piece of shit. Swinging from the end of a rope is quick easy death for a beast that made 1000's suffer...

Fuck him, his supporters and anyone who sympathizes with his death!

[horns666]

I give up.:ROTF:

Fuggit, I gave up before I even started..

I guess I'm a evil murderer then..so be it..

Cool..

[hippietim]

What good does it do me to kill him after my family is already dead? It certainly won't bring them back.

Zero. It'd only be to satisfy my own vanity. How petty! Revenge killing is a medieval, outmoded idea better suited to feudal Japan than to the first world in modernity.

there should be no question as to what YOU should do. you should go kill the pieces of shit if possible. if that is vanity to you then, well, well, what the fuck are you talking about?

i understand it being a question of what is right to do as a society, but not when someone takes something that precious away from your family. what we will tolerate as a society vs. an individual are considerably different.

[lerxstcat]

That's merely argumentum ad populum.

If the dress fits, wear it...

[rjohnstone]

I give up.:ROTF:

Make room for me. Some people just don't get it.

[Argos]

That's merely argumentum ad populum.

[lerxstcat]

What good does it do me to kill him after my family is already dead? It certainly won't bring them back.

Zero. It'd only be to satisfy my own vanity. How petty! Revenge killing is a medieval, outmoded idea better suited to feudal Japan than to the first world in modernity.

Most people would say that a man who wouldn't avenge his own dead wife and kids would be a gutless pussy who deserved to lose them. Imagine telling that story to your first date after letting the killer go quietly to jail for his "life" sentence that really means 8-10 years. Probably wouldn't get any second dates, ever.

[rjohnstone]

I'm not an advocate of the current penal system, so ideally I wouldn't have the man locked up in a cement hotel for the rest of his life, either. Punishment would certainly be due, but not capital. I have come to believe that mercy is the virtue of a true man.

So you would have him be what... slapped on the wrist?
Publicly flogged maybe? Or put in mental hospital perhaps?

Talk about creating chaos in society.
If life imprisonment or even the possibility of death are not an option for punishing those who commit murder, where is the deterance?

You have to either lock them up for life or execute them.


In this civilized society you speak of, people shouldn't be going around killing other people. But that place will never exist as long as humans are invloved. This world is occupied by man, an imperfect animal with animal instincts. We just have higher brain function than most other animals, and even that's debateable in some cases.
Mercy will only let man have another crack at it.
I'll save mercy for the petty thief trying to feed his family.

[StukaJU87]

I give up.:ROTF:

[Argos]

So you're saying you would shoot him if you got the drop on him in the first place, but NOT after you watched him kill your wife and kids? I can only call bullshit on this statement! If your wife read this post she should leave immediately, seeing that you would shoot the guy to protect your property but not to avenge her murder and that of your children!:ROTF::ROTF:

What good does it do me to kill him after my family is already dead? It certainly won't bring them back.

Zero. It'd only be to satisfy my own vanity. How petty! Revenge killing is a medieval, outmoded idea better suited to feudal Japan than to the first world in modernity.

[lerxstcat]

That's an interesting question, and I'll admit that I thought about it for a few minutes.

In the end, I would not kill the intruder. How does that make me any better than him? Given, I may or may not be justified in taking his life in retaliation. But I'm not going to fall to the level of taking life, especially when it's motivated by something so vain and petty as to simply make myself feel better. That's a dangerous road.

I'm not an advocate of the current penal system, so ideally I wouldn't have the man locked up in a cement hotel for the rest of his life, either. Punishment would certainly be due, but not capital. I have come to believe that mercy is the virtue of a true man.

If he had broken in and not had a chance to tie me up before I could react, would I have shot him (assuming I and my family were in mortal danger)? Absolutely.

So you're saying you would shoot him if you got the drop on him in the first place, but NOT after you watched him kill your wife and kids? I can only call bullshit on this statement! If your wife read this post she should leave immediately, seeing that you would shoot the guy to protect your property but not to avenge her murder and that of your children!:ROTF::ROTF:

[monk]

If it is not for fun, then what is the point? Personal revenge and pleasure? The rest, or 99%, of the "civilized" world are doing just fine without using the death penalty. You are (together with the third world) stuck several hundred years ago in your reasoning. The death penalty does not lower the crime rates, it does not lower the costs and once done there is no way to repair an eventual mistake made by judges, jurys or whatever.

Gandalf: "Sméagol's life is a sad story. Yes, Sméagol he was once called. Before the Ring found him… before it drove him mad."

Frodo: "It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance!"

Gandalf: "Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo?"

Gandalf: "Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise can not see all ends..."

[Argos]

Argos, I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question, if I may.

"An armed man bursts into your house. Before you can react, he punches your lights out and ties you up. He then waits for you to come to, just enought to see him execute your family while you watch. Your wife and kids blown into oblivion. Then he politely unties you, hands over the shot gun, and tells you he is done and that he is sorry. He will let you live and wait while you call the cops to come get him."

Having lived through and being witness to that:

Would you rack that 12 Guage and finish business, or call the cops first?

Would you want your tax dollars spent on keeping him in prison at the cost of 25-65 THOUSAND dollars a year? If the money doesn't matter to you, wouldn't it bother you that he is getting 3 hots and a cot. Roof over his head. Free medical care.

All this while you try to maintain your sanity and try to put some kind of life back together.

That's an interesting question, and I'll admit that I thought about it for a few minutes.

In the end, I would not kill the intruder. How does that make me any better than him? Given, I may or may not be justified in taking his life in retaliation. But I'm not going to fall to the level of taking life, especially when it's motivated by something so vain and petty as to simply make myself feel better. That's a dangerous road.

I'm not an advocate of the current penal system, so ideally I wouldn't have the man locked up in a cement hotel for the rest of his life, either. Punishment would certainly be due, but not capital. I have come to believe that mercy is the virtue of a true man.

If he had broken in and not had a chance to tie me up before I could react, would I have shot him (assuming I and my family were in mortal danger)? Absolutely.

[rjohnstone]

Where would you draw the line if someone deserves to die or not? Would it matter if your family, instead, was killed when crossing the street, by some random driver who unluckily was blinded by the sun at exactly the wrong moment and could not see them?

That scenario would be considered an accident. There was no malice or intent to harm. It would be sad, but not a reason to execute anyone.

Or if the driver was in a hurry trying to "find his own killer to kill" and did not care about slowing down when your family got in the way?

That is a criminal act and considered manslaughter or even murder 2.
Not a capital crime in my state. Only a first degree murder conviction will make you eligible to be executed, and there would have to be other conditions that would have to have been met on top of the murder 1 conviction to meet that criteria.

We don't just kill people for the fun of it ya know.
Only the really sick fucks get the needle.
The rest rot on a jail cell for the rest of their lives. The sad part is, they live in better conditions than some of the people that aren't in prison.

[monk]

Argos, I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question, if I may.

"An armed man bursts into your house. Before you can react, he punches your lights out and ties you up. He then waits for you to come to, just enought to see him execute your family while you watch. Your wife and kids blown into oblivion. Then he politely unties you, hands over the shot gun, and tells you he is done and that he is sorry. He will let you live and wait while you call the cops to come get him."

Having lived through and being witness to that:

Would you rack that 12 Guage and finish business, or call the cops first?

Would you want your tax dollars spent on keeping him in prison at the cost of 25-65 THOUSAND dollars a year? If the money doesn't matter to you, wouldn't it bother you that he is getting 3 hots and a cot. Roof over his head. Free medical care.

All this while you try to maintain your sanity and try to put some kind of life back together.

Where would you draw the line if someone deserves to die or not? Would it matter if your family, instead, was killed when crossing the street, by some random driver who unluckily was blinded by the sun at exactly the wrong moment and could not see them? Or if the driver was in a hurry trying to "find his own killer to kill" and did not care about slowing down when your family got in the way?