Homeowners, I'm looking for some input re: "starter" homes vs. townhouses.

[Inazone]

Back in the spring of 2004, I had a lofty goal: plan a wedding AND buy a house that we could move into after the honeymoon. Unfortunately, the house purchase didn't happen, and I never really made house-hunting a priority since then. When we are at home, my wife and I are usually sitting in front of a computer or sleeping. We both are in bands with practice spaces, and don't watch much TV. She has a home-based business in addition to her day job, but it doesn't actually require much space. No kids yet, although maybe in a few years that will change. Paying $600 a month for a 1BR apartment in the same city where we both work, with every convenience we could ever need, has left us with plenty of "play money" for our various interests, and saving for a house hasn't happened.

It appears that one way or another, 2007 is the year we will buy a home. We disagree on what our first home should be. We could live very comfortably for several years to come in a townhouse, or at least that's what *I* think. I don't care about having a lawn, am not a fix-it kind of person, and in general don't see us getting much out of owning a "proper" house. My wife, however, thinks that we would become cramped in a townhouse, and wants to be able to remodel at will, plant a garden, and so on. Neither of us is concerned about having a huge home (even if we could afford it), but there is some disagreement over needs versus wants.

Property values here are insane right now, so a complete POS house on a small lot commands what I consider extremely high prices. I'm not opposed to buying and maintaining a house, but I also don't want to pay through the nose for something that isn't that nice, simply because it's located on a prime piece of property. On the other hand, most of the townhouses here are of the cookie-cutter variety, Beige Hell if you will.

If some of you could offer some input or experiences about things like association fees, roofing/siding/maintenance costs, appliance maintenance, or ANYTHING else as it pertains to , I'd appreciate it a great deal. We are unfortunately starting from scratch financially, and if we are going to take the plunge, I want to avoid paying hundreds of dollars extra every month for things that won't offer any improvement over apartment living.

Whew!

[SouthPlatteDemon]

A single standing dwelling will always be better than being attached to someone else. To me, condos and townhomes are just big apartments.

[fett]

If you can hang tough for awhile, prices seem to be coming down or, at least, slowing. Based on what your wife wants, I would be patient and find a 3 bedroom house that some poor bastard bought with a teaser mortgage rate that just bloomed to the real rate. There will be alot of those out there, and the lenders will be more than happy not to have to forclose on them. The last thing they need are a bunch of upsidedown houses. I was around about 20 years ago when this same thing happened.

[rjohnstone]

Townhouse... it's a glorified apartment except you still have to buy all the same stuff you would need for a regular house, minus the lawn care stuff of course. But you will pay for lawn care in your HOA fees, so it's kind of a wash. Associations can be both good and bad and expensive.

I bought my first house 8 years ago. It was an older house (built in 1976), it didn't have an HOA, but I have great neighbors who take care of their stuff.

Costs... had to replace pretty much EVERYTHING in it. A/C, hot water heater, windows, ALL the appliances and then the nickel and dime shit add up too.
But in the end, it's mine.
Shit is gonna break whether it's in a house or a townhouse, so from a cost perspective, there really is no difference.
The really cool thing about a house though... you can JAM in it without having to worry about pissing off the person on the other side of your SHARED wall if you were in a townhome.
Try doing that in your HOA controlled townhome and see how fast the HOA fines start rolling in. Yes... they can fine you. And they can even take you to court and force you to move/sell if you violate the rules too much.

Get a house... it will hold its value better than any townhouse.

[toejam]

The really cool thing about a house though... you can JAM in it without having to worry about pissing off the person on the other side of your SHARED wall if you were in a townhome.
Try doing that in your HOA controlled townhome and see how fast the HOA fines start rolling in. Yes... they can fine you. And they can even take you to court and force you to move/sell if you violate the rules too much.

Get a house... it will hold its value better than any townhouse.

I bought my townhouse in 1999... I crank up the amps if I want, and pound on my drumset, too. Though, I do so during the day and not after 10:00 at night which is the noise ordinance rule. The walls are thick on both sides of me, so the neighbors really can't hear me through the house, only if they're outside. And it's worth at least double the amount that I bought it at.

[fett]

I don't mean to be a wet rag. But if I were in the market to buy a home, I would wait awhile. The last couple of years have been crazy in the real estate market. Trust me, I lived through market cycles. I have seen my house quaduple in value and then stay flat for 10 years. And that was in one the best markets in the US. Don't get sucked into a bad deal because you think you will make big bucks. Buy a beater house where they have to sell right now and then talk them down. It sounds like your wife would love the fact that she could make it her own.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

"simply because it's located on a prime piece of property" have you heard the phrase Location, Location, Location?

i had a home built 5 or so years ago what i thought was out of town. over the next few years more homes were built that are million plus. what i got into with 200k is now almost 600k in value. 40 miles away, my house may be worth 400k. don't underestimate location.

my house is about 3400 sq. ft with 1700 up and 1700 down. i had the upper level finished so we could move in, but the lower level was unfinished. i was able to finish downstairs mostly by myself and by no means am i a carpenter by trade. a lot of the stuff you can do yourself via home depots. your wife with the remodel idea is right on.

i lived in condo hell before i bought my home. the only part i liked was the equity i built. the bad part about condos is all the restrictions. and if you get idiots in the building. parking sucks also. you may as well sell any amp you have and get a micro cube if you get the neigbour from hell.

Property values here are insane right now: try King County, Wa.. ask Hippytim.

not sure if i would wait too long though. i could not afford my own home if i went to buy it now. (remember location) you can't save fast enough with the way homes go up in price and you are just pissing the money you have with renting.

[cookiemonster2]

I just moved out of a condo. Was it hell? No. Would I want a condo again? No.

The condo I bought four years ago was brand new when I moved in. Within three years many of the major components were rated in fair to poor condition. Why? The builder did a lousy job and then the condo board under the misguidance of the management company took their sweet time hiring an engineer to do an assessment (which is the law here). Had they got the assessment from the engineer sooner they might have had a better case to go after the builder to fix some things. Since they took so long the owners were on the hook for 1000's of dollars of remedial work in a relatively new building. Basically I was frustrated because after the first year passed I started hounding the board where is the engineer's report? And they still took too long.

Anyways, my point is don't expect to have a common property run properly even where a supposedly professional management company is hired.

[fett]

"That was yesterday. And yesterday's gone". That's a line from an old song and it applies to todays real estate market. Everyone, including me, have all these great stories about all we did is buy a house and now we are "Rich". What we have done has no bearing on what he wants to consider. You new guys were just lucky and bless you. I stick to what I said. Be patient and buy from a detressed seller.

[mattsmusiccenter]

I bought a townhouse 6 years ago and loved the fact I didn't have to do a damn thing, including lawn care, snow removal or any other maintenance.

I liked condo living so much that I recently sold my place, made a bunch of money on it and bought a nicer one.

Being self employed I just don't have time to take care of a yard. Plus I grew up on a large piece of property and did more then enough house maintenance stuff to last me a lifetime.

[fett]

Here I am offering advice and I live in a trailer (actually a mobilehome).:ROTF: :ROTF: :ROTF: :ROTF: But it's paid for and I am happy until they sell the land.

[AlexL]

Well, as a fellow Minnesotan, I can give you my experience.

My wife and I were engaged to be married, and we started looking for a place to live. I wanted an apartment close to work (Eden Prairie/Hopkins area), and my wife wanted a house close to work. The apartment in Eden Prairie we could afford. The house we couldn't. So we discussed the matter, and bought a house in Maple Grove. This was in 1992. We paid 82,000 for the house. We sold it in 2000 for 142,000. Maple Grove, it turns out, exploded as a community, and our investment in our home was, shall I say, most profitable.

We then built a home in Rogers, which has already accrued in value by 50% after only 6 years. Little did we know that Rogers was to become the next Maple Grove. Good luck on our part once again.

There is currently a surplus of homes in much of the twin cities, so it is a GOOD time to be a buyer, if you pick the right area to live.

Above and beyond everything else, a house is an investment. If you keep it up, it will always be worth more than you paid for it. It is not hard to learn how to do some things around the house, and I am proof of that. I have fixed our washer, our dryer, put up stud walls and sheet rock, wired in new circuits, ceiling fans, light fixtures, even a hot tub, done some plumbing, tile work, etc. NONE of these are things that I knew I could do (and I get full city inspections to make sure I do everything right, but I digress...).

My plan is that my wife and I will sell our home when we retire (still a long ways off), buy a smaller home by paying cash for it, and still have a pile of cash left over. And all of that based on our initial investment in our first house, which we used to buy our current house. We still have many years left to pay off our current home, but we could already sell it for way more than we paid for it.

Anyway, my point is do some research as to the up-and coming communities, avoid the depressed areas, and buy a single-family home (I would wager that a single family home will always appreciate faster than a town home). You can then play your guitars as loud as you want, and you will be living in the best investment you can make. Retirement is a long ways off for guys like us, but a house is a great way to build up an investment for that day when we can't work any more.

It is hard to put yourself in a situation where you may not have the "fun" money like you used to, but you do want to start planning for the future.

Sorry if I sound like an old married guy, but I am a 38 year old married guy...

Hope that helps. We don't live too far away from each other, really. I met you at the jam in Anoka (I was playing bass). If you want to get together and shoot the sh!t about this over a beer, PM me and let me know. And no, I am not a real estate agent, mortgage broker, ar anyone else who would gain from your decision to buy or not buy a house.


- Eric

[toejam]

I bought a townhouse 6 years ago and loved the fact I didn't have to do a damn thing, including lawn care, snow removal or any other maintenance.

Being self employed I just don't have time to take care of a yard.

Yep, being self-employed, that's one of the reasons I like it so much, too.

[Wayniac]

[QUOTE=cookiemonster2;846777]I just moved out of a condo. Was it hell? No. Would I want a condo again? No.

QUOTE]

Agreed! I bought in April 2004, mainly because Holly and I were both working full time and in grad school at the time, and neither of us wanted to keep up with a yard. Both of our apt leases were expiring, and we looked at $$.. for $150 more per month, we were building equity AND getting a write-off. No brainer.
Not too shabby - 1200 sq ft end unit in a 5 unit complex, 2 BR, 1.5 bath, sunken living room , deck, bay window, side yard, 1 car garage underneath, and storage/utility room.
Fast forward to now.. we are looking at houses. Mind you, the price I paid in CT 4 yrs ago was OK, and I stand to make about 50% on my investment if I get asking price when I sell later this year (would have made more if I sold 2 yrs ago). Real estate in CT is STUPID expensive right now...

Bennies of condo vs apt: Little to no yard work, interest on monthly "rent" gets you a write-off on the taxes - since it is an actual mortgage. That is about it

Drawbacks: Condo fees do not get you a write-off, condo management may not agree with what you think is a priority, neighbors right next door (same as apt) , neighbors who do not keep up maintenance on their unit, neighbors who pay their condo fees late, neighbors who crank rap music on Fridays after work...

House: More expensive, but you can do what the hell you want.
Drawback - you have to maintain it without help.

For what iot's worth, Holly, I , and a 100 lb Rottie are not crowded. BUT.. I could use more room for gear, recording, etc. Also... if we had kids, this would be too small./..

[missionguitars1]

I'm with fett - wait a little while. About mid-year, a lot of these phony loans (balloons, ARMs, IOs, etc) used to fuel the housing craze of the last 5 years will start blowing up. A LOT of people that think "they will just re-finance into a 30 year fixed mortgage" are going to find they do not have the credit or equity to do so (sorry for the minutia - I traded mortgages for a living until earlier this year). That means a lot of foreclosures, and since banks aren't in the property management business, a lot of supply will be hitting the market simultaniously. You were wise to wait - you'd probably be out some coin if you had bought when you got married!

As for house vs. condo? I'm 100% in the "house" camp, but that's only because I have 3 kids and need a yard and more room than most condos can offer. I'm also pretty handy, but more out of necessity than desire ("Look - the toilet's flooded - what to do!" at 3am) as there's no one to call when things break...or if you want to replace the flooring in your bathroom ... you can bend over and let someone else do it, or buck-up and learn how to do it yourself (NOT FUN!).

If you've ever been on the wrong side of a multi-thousand dollar "special assessment" when the HOA decides to re-roof the whole complex, or don't like neighbors that you have to share walls with, well, you get the idea!

Sounds like you might be best suited for a newer townhome complex with individual yards and a younger population...