US Health Insurance for all

[fett]

Bill Gates is thowing billions of bucks around the world giving healthcare. I guess, I admire that. But what about the real poor people here in the US? WTF? We made that guy the richest man in the world. Stay home, Bill.

[Rich#6]

edit

[fett]

6X12=72. 72x$500=$36,000. What don't you get? Math major.:ROTF: Rich said, That's only $6000. That's a year!!!!!!! That's $17 a day. Why not have everyone pay $2.00 a day. That's $730 a year. A federal tax of 1/2% on sales would do that easy for those who can't do that.

[sonofspy]

I pay $44/month in health care premiums, family premiums are $88 >snip>At least with a public system the government can ration the available services to ensure very sick people get treated before the wealthy have their hang-nails attended to.

Canada... now there's a civilized country. Hmm how many 1st World countries
don't have nationalized health insurance and don't believe that the health
of their people is a right? Answer: only 1, the US.

Disgusting.

Son Of Spy

[danastas]

My fear is that once we institute a SOME is better than NONE system, then employers will start dropping people left and right.

That's why the only way out is a national system for all that delivers a full range of service (but without all the perks) and allows for people with so-called VIP cards to get the treatment they pay for. In other words, if you want to see specific doctors outside your circuit, then your supplemental insurance picks up the tab.

[caesar81]

I say there should be the option to do this if you want. You can choose not to opt into it and keep your private doctor and have your own private care however you like and not pay a dime.

The people that do want it can pay into it and have their healthcare that they need. Everyone is happy that way and there's still free choice that way.

[fett]

Yep. Throw the whole system out. There is no middle class anymore. Just look at what the "average" middle class person has to pay. More money. More co-pays. Less service and a "real hit" on income. Why do people have to decide whether they buy food or pay for the medication they need? This is the US. Money is everywhere. Doctors can be paid. Nurses can be paid. And all the rest. Insurance companies can make their money. This just sucks. I only started this thread based on my COL thread. I didn't realize I started something. But, I am glad I did.

[Rich#6]

6X12=72. 72x$500=$36,000. What don't you get? Math major.:ROTF: Rich said, That's only $6000. That's a year!!!!!!! That's $17 a day. Why not have everyone pay $2.00 a day. That's $730 a year. A federal tax of 1/2% on sales would do that easy for those who can't do that.

everyone else was talking about cost in one year. I edited it as soon as I realized you were taking about 6 years. edited very quickly wasn't it? I thought you had too much beer.

$12k is a huge chunk out of $50k salary.

I'm glad that my parents had the $$ to make the payments, that wasn't really the issue, just the fact that it cost her over $12K a year for a median health insurance, which is criminal IMO.

SEE You must be sitting next to the computer every minute. I have too many numbers in my head today. budgeting time.

[fett]

It's all good unless you get sick.

[Rich#6]

I am lucky I have insurance for me and my wife for around $40 every two weeks.

[Tashtego]

Canada... now there's a civilized country. Hmm how many 1st World countries
don't have nationalized health insurance and don't believe that the health
of their people is a right? Answer: only 1, the US.

Disgusting.

Son Of Spy

Switzerland comes to mind for one.

[Tashtego]

came across a couple of doctors thoughts on the subject in a blog that I thought I'd post up here

I had to quickly scan your Hillaryspot column on Health care, and you seem to be suffering under a delusion that American physicians are free to set their fees, and will be paid accordingly. I can assure you that we physicians are not free to do anything of the sort. We can not pass on costs, we can not compete by lowering prices, we can not even charge what supplies may cost us, if they happen to be over the set fees. Medicare has set the fees, and just about every insurance company and managed care contract has keyed off of Medicare. Feel sorry for that poor old person, so decide to see him for half price? Congratulations, you are guilty of Medicare fraud.

Physicians may not give the same service for less than the Medicare mandated fee if those physicians have agreed to be a Medicare provider. It is even illegal to waive a copay. As for trying to charge higher fees for costs, just because your malpractice went up 100% last year? You may try to increase your fee schedule, but it will just be written off by the payors, and it is, of course, illegal to attempt to recover anything over the schedule.

We have had this degree of socialization for years. I am disappointed that even on NRO that this is not better known. There is no free market, nor will there be, for physician services.

In PA, where I practice, malpractice has driven many physicians away from the state, and will likely continue to do so. When I began practice in 1983, I paid about $3500 for my premium. This year it is north of $20,000, even with the state helping out to some degree. In the 1980’s, about 50% of physicians who went to medical school in PA stayed here to practice. This past year, retention is at 4%. In addition to malpractice premiums skyrocketing, reimbursements are regional. If you set up practice 30 miles from where I am, and get into Ohio or NY, your fee base could be 30-40% better than it would be in PA, for exactly the same service.

Just a foretaste of central planning run amok. I liken it to having congress decide that NOAA had become so good at forecasting weather, that they could save heating and A/C costs by running every thermostat in the country from Washington according to their long-range forecasts. In order to make sure that they had good control, laws would be passed making it mandatory to nail shut your windows and outlawing fans. Such is the state of health care in this country, and it doesn’t look much better in the future unless we can somehow wrest back the thermostats.

Michael offers his firsthand experiences:

I am an Emergency Room Physician and hence am qualified to make a few observations. The first point is in regards to financing so-called universal health care. It is plainly immoral to force one individual to pay for another's health care. That is however, the basis for all universal health care schemes. As soon as 51% of the populace figures out how to force the other 49% to pay for their health care "universal health care" suddenly becomes politically viable. And you will note that progressive taxation schemes are invariably used to pay for it.

Next, it should be noted that "preventive" health care is practically a joke. There are very few diseases that can actually be prevented. Most that can be are already covered by free or nearly free programs such as immunization, most of the rest are lifestyle related. It is entirely a myth that preventive measures would, for example, help avoid ER visits, the top eleven reasons for going to the ER have no relation to any sort of preventive measures whatsoever.

Lastly, the idea that providing people with free care through the government or a national health insurance program would help control costs is ridiculous. The people who get the free care now are the ones who constantly abuse the system. In the course of my day my patient population consists of about 70% Medicaid "beneficiaries" and illegal immigrants. These patients pay nothing to access the health care system, yet approximately 90% of them are in the ER with a trivial or non emergent complaint. But Hey! It's free!

Giving another 46 million people, only 55% of whom are U.S. citizens, free health care is a just a great idea all right.Move health care financing to a free market basis, do something about malpractice, reward charity care and make people responsible for their own health care decisions, only then will you solve the "health care crisis" in a moral fashion.

[lerxstcat]

Tort reform with malpractice helps. Two years ago Mississippi was basically losing its doctors because no one would write malpractice insurance. This is because juries routinely entered verdicts with $250,000 compensatory damages and $20 million in punitive damages. Obviously the insurance companies will appeal such verdicts and often leave the state. Without the heavy punitive damages they'd more often just pay the verdict for compensatory damages. Who gains by the appeals? Only the attorneys.

We imposed a reasonable cap on punitive damages (I don't know the exact amount off hand) and the docs are coming back because they can get insurance again.

[nor]

If you want to understand what a Federal Health Care system would look like, just look at every other Federal agency.

[Kii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwUUxSi9evs