US Health Insurance for all

[Rich#6]

One of the things they need to fix here is how non insured people are billed. If you have insurance the doctors/hosiptals adjust everything down to a contracted rate and half the billed stuff is included in other charges. My surgery last year was about $18k originally but after adjustments it was about $4k and I had to pay about $400 of it. The poor just get screwed! Now they are cutting staff at the county hosital too do its like screw the people on publie aid even more.

[Tashtego]

Why are there long wait times in Canada at all? Also, by no means am I praising the system we currently have here. I believe health care is getting worse here as well but I don't believe it will be improved by the government assuming even more coersive power. Perhaps the sure disaster to follow compusory health care could be mitigated by coupling it from the get go with 100% vouchers for private health care. How I wish I had that for school from my property taxes.

[Accept2]

Two tier health care is the way to go. One day Canada and the US will realize that...................

[LesPaulCustom]

Good thread...nice arguments for and against.

While I am split on a "Socialized" medicine program due to the inherint risks of lesser quality healthcare and the propensity for fraud, I am also abhorred at the costs of insurances now.

My mother recently passed away and fortunately was over 65, so she could and did qualify for Medicare(ade?) and was no longer responsible for the huge ($1200/month) premium she was paying.

I'm glad that my parents had the $$ to make the payments, that wasn't really the issue, just the fact that it cost her over $12K a year for a median health insurance, which is criminal IMO.

I am soooooooo glad that I am US Military!! Yes, we bitch/moan/complain about Tricare (the military healthcare system), but at the end of the day, it is relatively fast, efficient, and cost friendly.

I, myself, am in the final stages of being medically retired soon, but I can keep my SAME health insurance now for my wife and stepchild for like $500 a YEAR!! I will be covered regardless by the VA for the rest of my life regardless due to my conditions.

I honestly don't know what the answer is, but it seems to me that everything is hinging upon $$ for the Doctors and other health professionals and the supporting establishment that drive the prices up for most of us. This very well could be a/the major selling point of our next president, along with the War in Iraq/Afghanistan as the top priorities and visibility of the people.

[Tashtego]

It is expensive no doubt. But, I am much happier choosing my own providers and paying my own insurance bill (since I can deduct the entire cost). If my insurance provider or physician pisses me off or something I can choose another with asking for permission from anyone.

I think a better system would allow all tax payers to deduct 100% of their medical / insurance expenses. Have the individual manage his own situation, choosing insurance, HMO, health care providers etc and paying themselves. No employer involvement. The indigent should be taken care of in charity / welfare hospitals subsidized by the Gov.

[danastas]

No, you can thank things like NAFTA for that or the tax cuts that were put into place to stimulate the economy the our CEO's decided to pocket instead of using it the way it should have been. Our middle class is shrinking and who do you think keeps the burdon of the taxes on their back? Less middle class means tax revenues need to be increased ...

I agree, and that may be true. But I know for a fact that my taxes went up this year because of the cost of medical expenses. My university had to increase tuition by a bigger percentage than ever before largely because their health care plan costs DOUBLED in the last 6 years.

It really has a huge effect.

[danastas]

Why are there long wait times in Canada at all? Also, by no means am I praising the system we currently have here. I believe health care is getting worse here as well but I don't believe it will be improved by the government assuming even more coersive power. Perhaps the sure disaster to follow compusory health care could be mitigated by coupling it from the get go with 100% vouchers for private health care. How I wish I had that for school from my property taxes.

One reason is that Canada spends a lot LESS money on heakth care than the US does. I saw the figures that showed the US spent so much more than other countries it wasn't even funny, and yet our costs are through the roof.

You can't construct a competitive system for health care when the best health care is, really, to keep people from having to see doctors at all. For instance, we don't do well with preventative health care. wonder why? Maybe it's because the profit incentive is for doctors to TREAT patients. That's how they make their money. For instance, colonoscopies in the US cost about $2k a pop. They are fairly easy to administer, and they are routinely proscribed when they absolutely shouldn't be. The AMA estimated that 90% of colonoscopies are unnecessary, and that this is the most popular expensive procedure out there. A huge waste. but this is what you get when you have a profit motive in the hospital industry. And doctors definitely do pop their heads in the patient's room for a second and then bill them.

I'm not blaming doctors. I think they should get paid, and paid a lot. Much more so than in other countries. I want good doctors. But they can get paid a lot on salary. They don't have to do it with a patient assembly line.

[danastas]

It is expensive no doubt. But, I am much happier choosing my own providers and paying my own insurance bill (since I can deduct the entire cost). If my insurance provider or physician pisses me off or something I can choose another with asking for permission from anyone.

I think a better system would allow all tax payers to deduct 100% of their medical / insurance expenses. Have the individual manage his own situation, choosing insurance, HMO, health care providers etc and paying themselves. No employer involvement. The indigent should be taken care of in charity / welfare hospitals subsidized by the Gov.

It's not a case of indigents only. It's a case of small business people. One in 5 Americans don't have health care.

The indigent and poor are all taken care of with Medicaid. Those 1 in 5 are obviously working class. But since they work in small businesses they can't afford the premiums.

$12k is a huge chunk out of $50k salary.

[VoiceX3]

Well, I like donuts and coffee. That hockey game last night sucked didn't it? I was just standing here minding my own business and BAM!!!! Did anybody see the tits on her?? Wow!


Still not doin the political talk thing tho.

[Spivonious]

I guess I'm lucky? My job pays for my health insurance. If I want a lower deductible then I can pay a little more ($80/month?) before taxes. Since I'm a healthy 25 year-old, there's really no reason for me to get the lower deductible.

If I ever get fired, I can keep my health insurance for a period of time under CORBA.

IMO this is the best way we can do things. Of course some price control measures would be nice. It reminds me of when you take your car in to the body shop. If insurance is paying for it, it's 20% more than if you're paying for it out of your pocket. Since the vast majority of people have some form of health insurance, hospitals charge what they can get out of the insurance companies.

My dad (a family doctor) went to Kenya with our church a few years ago and helped out at their hospital. An x-ray cost the equivalent of $25. I got an x-ray here once and it cost over $1000. Same equipment, but no one in Kenya has insurance.

[rjohnstone]

COBRA is a joke.
Yeah, you can keep your insurance for up to 18 months after termination. but you pay the FULL (street) price for your insurance, not the employer subsidized price.

My insurance coverage for me, my wife and daughter is already insane at over $300 per paycheck... that's more than $600 per month.
Under COBRA, that would cost me close to $1,500.00 per month.
This same coverage cost me $150 month 5 years ago.
I have kept the same provider year after year (Aetna) because they have been great to deal with and never reject anything really.
But the costs for the EXACT same level of coverage has quadrupaled (sp?)!

Something has to be done, because my paycheck sure as hell hasn't increased at that rate.
If it keeps increasing at this rate, I won't be able to afford healthcare coverage at all... and I make good money!

[Rich#6]

The biggest reason the insurance costs have gone up so much is because of the markets. Insurance companies do not make money off of premiums vs payouts. they take our money and invest it in the markets, real estate hotels etc and it offsets the looses from the claims. Since the markets went down so much a few years ago they raised the premiums. Now the markets are back up but you know they're not going to give anything back. The second issue is the doctors malpractice insurance costs so much because everyone sues over a hangenail.

[Tashtego]

It's not a case of indigents only. It's a case of small business people. One in 5 Americans don't have health care.

The indigent and poor are all taken care of with Medicaid. Those 1 in 5 are obviously working class. But since they work in small businesses they can't afford the premiums.

$12k is a huge chunk out of $50k salary.

12K is more than I pay for my family plan as a small business owner.

I agree 12/50 is a lot but below the 35 - 45% or so that the gov. confiscates already. Just let everyone deduct the cost right from their taxes. Win/win everyone gets to pick their own health care and the gov gets less $ and power over individuals rather than more. Increased competetion should improve service and reduce costs. Also, it isn't fair to even begin talking about high health care costs without discussing what to do about the liability / malpractice industry that is another huge driving force to the health care inflation, as mentioned above.

[lerxstcat]

I just don't get it. There are 220 million of us. If every single person paid $300 a year and a family max at $1,500 a year, why would that not work? Insurance is nothing more than a bet. The trick is to make the pool so large that the millions will cover the thousands. The new board precludes me from getting political.

Actually there are over 300 million of us as of October 2006, and over 40 million of us have no insurance coverage.

Now if you're covered and you're satisfied, you'll tend to not want change. But instituting a national system doesn't mean eliminating the existing system. In fact maybe it will cause competition that will lower the private rates since there will be an alternative.

This is a serious problem in this country. It's easy enough for the haves to say there's nothing wrong, but the system as it is is overcharging you too. Just because you can make it despite the extortion doesn't mean it's right.

You'll be able to keep your private insurance so you won't have to deal with "substandard" healthcare. But to those with NO healthcare, SOME is better than NONE.

I'm typing with a partially paralyzed left side because of a stro0ke that happened because I lost my insurance, then my job. I couldn't get referred into the slapdash county system until AFTER I had a stroke. I don't think that's the way it should be done.

[fett]

I have no insurance and I'm 56. When I lost my insurance 6 years ago, they wanted $300/month. I figure that number would be $700/month now. Figure an average of $500/month. That's $36,000 if I were still insured. My eye cost me $15,000. $21,000 I didn't spend. So here I am now. If I get real sick I have the cash to pay. I am lucky. I guess. I won't even go into what could have happened while my wife was dying of MS. Let's just say, we would have had to sell everything just to get any type of care if she lived another 5 years. It's just not right. $400 billion could be spent in a better way.