Ya know who really pisses me off?

[Ralph E.]

Bill Gates said he needs 3000 people at Microsoft and he can't find them here in the US. What does that tell you about our educational system?

And you believe him?

"The tech sector, most notably, is suffering from the longest jobless recovery since World War II, having lost more than 400,000 jobs since the start of the March 2001 recession. The recession "officially" ended in November that same year, but for thousands of American tech workers, such claims of a full-blown IT rebound are vastly exaggerated." - By Marcus Courtney CNet July 2006

[fett]

Wow, kids settle down. I know how far the original thread has been derailed. Now it's a pissing match. I will make an observation. A college degee as well as advanced degrees that we have earned from colleges and universities in the US are not considered "High Value" degrees when compared to foreign degrees. I know how smart I am, or used to be. I got my BA with little or no effort on my part. In the '70's the degree was "Free" and the effort to get one was minimal. Cal State Univerisity, Hayward 1974. We were punks and entitled to a degree. Our foreign friends were knocking their brains out to earn a degree. It was their ticket out of a life of nothing. I am not knocking anyone who has earned a degree in the US, but employers know that a foreign degree was earned by a person that really studied hard and was put through the wringer just to have a chance at a degree. India for example. Japan for an example. That's why they are so much in demand. Bill Gates said he needs 3000 people at Microsoft and he can't find them here in the US. What does that tell you about our educational system?

[Ralph E.]

Damn Ralph, you are one bitter man....

as far as the MBA thing goes Ralph I agree to some extent about jobs going over seas but in regards to MBA or not...a poor worker with an MBA is still a poor worker. Education IS important but you can't hide behind an MBA if you have no common sense or drive. From my experience some (not all) folks think that since they got their MBA that they dont have to work hard or feel they are entitled to something but have no real world experience

So now i'm lazy? Thanks for that without knowing anything about me...

I worked/owned a small software distribution company for 18 years. I have done everything from programming, design, training, setup/installation, accounting, consulting... you get the point.

I have been told numerous times that there is no way any big company will touch an entrepreneur. I'm too much of an "independent thinker", they want "team" players. At 40, about to lose my house, no kids (and we did want them) I cannot (and will not) start over @ $30k. Not gonna happen.

So Shawn, bitter yes, lazy no.

[SeventhSon]

Ok, so now I can't read/watch the news either, funny how you always know better than everyone else...

I'll remember those words when you lose your job to the brother of the guy you buy your slurpees from...

Not to mention that I have personally experienced EXACTLY that when I ran my software company. We ended up competing against guys from Denmark who worked for 25K/year (that was 8 years ago, the report the other day said avg. salary is now $50k) living in NY City. I just looked at these guys and was like, how are you doing that? Turns out they come over in groups, live in a small apartment with 3-5 together, and send money back home (untaxed, I might add). There is NO WAY to compete against this type of labor.

These "imported" workers work for an average of $50k, alot less than us "homegrown" workers. That is what the report said on the news (so blame them not me HT). Sorry, but that is all I need to hear, along with my experience of treatment being a white guy in today's job market.

This is all about the rich getting richer. Remember the movie "Freejack"? That's where we're headed. Two classes of people. Uber-rich and super-poor. There will be no middle class in 100 years.

You should rent the documentary "The Corporation".

[Ralph E.]

You really and truly have no ide what you are talking about there.

Ok, so now I can't read/watch the news either, funny how you always know better than everyone else. You really should get into politics, you remind me alot of GW. You never hear or care to understand anything but your view of the world and arrogantly demean anyone who offers a difference of opinion...

I'll remember those words when you lose your job to the brother of the guy you buy your slurpees from...

Not to mention that I have personally experienced EXACTLY that when I ran my software company. We ended up competing against guys from Denmark who worked for 25K/year (that was 8 years ago, the report the other day said avg. salary is now $50k) living in NY City. I just looked at these guys and was like, how are you doing that? Turns out they come over in groups, live in a small apartment with 3-5 together, and send money back home (untaxed, I might add). There is NO WAY to compete against this type of labor.

These "imported" workers work for an average of $50k, alot less than us "homegrown" workers. That is what the report said on the news (so blame them not me HT). Sorry, but that is all I need to hear, along with my experience of treatment being a white guy in today's job market.

This is all about the rich getting richer. Remember the movie "Freejack"? That's where we're headed. Two classes of people. Uber-rich and super-poor. There will be no middle class in 100 years.

[charvelguy]

Did Charvelguy delete his post? there is a difference though... slaves were beaten to death (literally) if they didnt produce quality products. but illegals already have a union to make sure they are treated right and given the right wages and stuff. There is a big big difference.

Not to belittle the plight and suffering of slaves and slavery of all types.
Slaves were brought into trade because they were captured by neighboring tribes who deemed them as enemies for whatever reason, made them as prisoners and sold as a commodity to become exploited by a market.

Maybe I'm shortsighted and ignorant on the topic at this time, but the nature of the oppressor and the oppressed hasn't really changed.. just the circumstances dictating the terms of civility, the times, the region.

A pimp and a his ho's are a slaver and slave relationship in my book.

[SeventhSon]

Well Mandel was involved in terrorist acts that killed innocent people look into it and not on a tribute sight.

He has admitted as such and has lobbied for the ANC to admit as such in the Truth and Reconciliation effort. The same process by which thousands of Apartheid members admitted their own crimes against humanity (death squads, murder, etc.). So Mandela is a criminal in the same sense that past South African leaders were criminals. Mandela was on the weaker side, got caught, and was jailed. That's the only difference.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with Bono.

I have not contributed one dollar or minute of my time listening to his positions. In fact I thought his pet project was eliminating third world debt. Whatever.

My main point is that he's no different than any other dude with a personal opinion, including you. You win the lotto tomorrow, you've become him. People don't like yours or Bono's opinions? No reason to have a cow...just don't listen. His ideas either strike a chord with you or you think he's full of shit. Where's the drama in this?

[emperor_black]

I totally agree with you...

Did Charvelguy delete his post? there is a difference though... slaves were beaten to death (literally) if they didnt produce quality products. but illegals already have a union to make sure they are treated right and given the right wages and stuff. There is a big big difference.

[emperor_black]

Charvelguy,
Why is your company hiring illegals? My bet is because they work cheaper than Americans. That's the usual case. I live in Iowa, where there are a ton of meat packing plants that hire all kinds of illegals. They do that for 2 reasons, they work cheaper. And thus, the product is cheaper. No one complains when they pay cheap prices for meat or produce but then want to gripe about the problem. If we had to pay Americans to do those jobs salads would cost over $50 and steak over $100. That's just basic economics...

I'm not saying theres not a problem. But we seem to like to take advantage of it through the price we are willing to pay for stuff...

+1 to that.

But what people are missing is that this "lower" cost also means lower skill people are doing it. On the news I've heard that the houses built in the last 5 years are full of problems. Why? two out of three consturuction workers nowadays are latinos. Every damn product is going down in quality. The big guys will not be affected by this because they will get their custom hand-built quality stuff and they can afford to do that because they have saved a lot of money by hiring the illegals in the first place. But its us who suffer!

[Bengal]

I'm aware there's a demand, and why. Illegals are kept as illegals the same way that slaves were kept as slaves if its not to dememaing and insulting to make that rough comparison. It still doesn't change the fact that they are illegal same as if I were to start a business smuggling common goods over the border is illegal.

I totally agree with you...

[emperor_black]

That is the weird thing about lawyers. They dont care if bringing in illegals and fighting for their "legal" status is destroying the country or not. As long as they get their pay check, they will keep doing it. they dont care if it provides a easy route for terrorists or not. I wil not be surprised if big companies who employ illegals so they can save money are making sure everyone turns a blind eye to the problem.

[charvelguy]

I'm aware there's a demand, and why. Illegals are kept as illegals the same way that slaves were kept as slaves if its not to demeaning and insulting to make that rough comparison.

It still doesn't change the fact that they are illegal same as if I were to start a business smuggling common goods over the border is illegal.

The punitive damages against me as a citizen for doing that is far greater than a company that hires someone who made it into to the country, and job with forged paperwork.

[Bengal]

Quote "Don't diss our boys in Iraq they are doing it for you so you don't have to defend yourself in downtown San Jose Ca."

I have had to defend myself a few times in Downtown San Jose must be nice living in Willow Glen I still pack when ever I have to ge to such areas as down town SJ I prefer going to East Palo Alto if I have a choice.

So what your saying is the above statement isn't working?

[Bengal]

Charvelguy,
Why is your company hiring illegals? My bet is because they work cheaper than Americans. That's the usual case. I live in Iowa, where there are a ton of meat packing plants that hire all kinds of illegals. They do that for 2 reasons, they work cheaper. And thus, the product is cheaper. No one complains when they pay cheap prices for meat or produce but then want to gripe about the problem. If we had to pay Americans to do those jobs salads would cost over $50 and steak over $100. That's just basic economics...

I'm not saying theres not a problem. But we seem to like to take advantage of it through the price we are willing to pay for stuff...

[charvelguy]

I was wrong... It got dumber...

Charvelguy,
If you work for a company that employs illegals, that's your companies fault. They are to blame, not the government. If there was no demand, there would be no supply...

Its both. The company knows, and has made some semi legit attempts to make sure the documentation and paperwork is legal..to a degree.
Its a wink wink situation...if the illegal wants more money because they feel they're entitled even tho, some don't pay taxes, some do get benefits (at best).. then they are putting themselves in jeopardy to being replaced by more illegal temps. The tradeoff there from the companies perspecitive is it is intensive to retrain all new people with new skills for the same jobs.
Now... the other issue is, few punitive actions are taken against the company by our Gov't. Companies say its not their fault and can justify their acts if documents were forged and they had no 'real' knowledge.

So, the Gov't does allow more leniency than it should IMO. If companies bore heavy fines, they wouldn't risk it.. anymore than I wouldn't risk smuggling cigs or drugs over the border from Canada or Mexico because I can undercut the price and stand to profit from it. While I could do that.. I don't because if I were to get caught,..it would be a Federal crime and a felony or three.. and I wouldn't like prison.