Iran Takes 15 British Soldiers At Gunpoint

[hippietim]

I think parading Iranians around on British TV is a great idea. The British can always stand to see more examples of decent dental hygene.

[VitaminG]

[dd3keegs]

When they were in the Iranians control, I would absolutely expect them to say whatever it took to keep them as safe as possible. Considering the beheadings etc, I would wholeheartedly expect them to admit to whatever and apologize for whatever.

What I myself referred to, is how apologetically they acted (and Blair as well) after they were freed. Seemed like they were trying not to upset the Iranians. Seems that is changing a bit now tho.

This is friggin ridiculous! Friggin Royal Marines aren't hacks! Why didn't they fight, or at least not give up,and said they were in the wrong waters. Our American Soldiers haven't done this. The blood of the US Soldiers who died under enemy torture in the Middle East screams out to them, and us all!!!! Did they die in vain so this rogue Nation of Iran can make a mockery of the UK! and the US!. These guys should be Court Mashalled! The Muslim extremistist think we a FAT, PAMPERED, STUPID and WEAK! And they think they can overthrow Democratic Freedom in the US and Freedom in Europe! America is the only Nation with enough Balls and Foresite to do something about it! The UK just Pussied Out! That's it boys. I hope you and your children are ready for a lifetime of the Bullsh!t. Cause these guys ARE in it for the long haul. And the Wimpy left and deluded Democrats think if we just walk away from it, it will all go away. God Help Us ALL!

[charvelguy]

They left the fight for another day. Outgunned and outnumbered.
It sounded like they would have taken heavy losses and take on a fight they could not win. (Custer like)
It would have caused an international incedent of huge consequence if they had fought back. Which is really why the Iranians did this.. had them by the balls to begin with. I really don't believe the extremists have ever had much respect for the Brits given their history in the region.
The Brits know Iran and Iraq are two separate issues.. not sure if the Iranians consider it that way tho.
Like I said.. the UK just pulled out of Iraq.. this was a very diplomatically calculated move IMO to divide the democractic front on another issue.

Plus, we don't see what goes on behind the scenes.. I'm sure there are many in the Ministry Military who feel the same.. I don't expect it to happen again any time too soon.. the point has been made.

[lerxstcat]

When they were in the Iranians control, I would absolutely expect them to say whatever it took to keep them as safe as possible. Considering the beheadings etc, I would wholeheartedly expect them to admit to whatever and apologize for whatever.

What I myself referred to, is how apologetically they acted (and Blair as well) after they were freed. Seemed like they were trying not to upset the Iranians. Seems that is changing a bit now tho.

Bear in min d that when they were first "freed" and meeting with Ahmedinajad they were still in Iran. If they'd talked shit at that point they could just be rearrested and we'd hear they died in a misguided escape attempt - or whatever story Iran wanted to tell.

They had to wait until they were home in Britain and debriefed before they knew it was okay to tell the real story.

[lerxstcat]

There were 15 personnel total, and I think 7 or 8 Royal Marines. Who knows if they were even all armed, or just the Marines. Either way, if you're on a launch and an armed warship comes aside, with a crew of presumably at least 100, and tells you to surrender or be sunk, you really have no choice. Fire on a warship with small arms? Maybe your ricochets won't kill your own, but you're not harming the warship.

Our troops too have surrendered when locally outnumbered, if you recall it happened at least once at the start of the war when Jessica Lynch was taken. Sure, they fought back at first, but when they realized they were outnumbered and outgunned, they surrendered.

The British are pulling out. Their people were probably ordered to go out of their way to avoid an incident, knowing this might happen. Even if this party of 15 had been killed, Britain is getting out. They might have lobbed some boimbs or missiles in to retaliate, but Britain is n ot goin g to war with Iran. We, the US, are not going to war with them either, not to avenge an incident against the British at any rate.

So these people acted in such a way as to survive; they did the right thing.

This is friggin ridiculous! Friggin Royal Marines aren't hacks! Why didn't they fight, or at least not give up,and said they were in the wrong waters. Our American Soldiers haven't done this. The blood of the US Soldiers who died under enemy torture in the Middle East screams out to them, and us all!!!! Did they die in vain so this rogue Nation of Iran can make a mockery of the UK! and the US!. These guys should be Court Mashalled! The Muslim extremistist think we a FAT, PAMPERED, STUPID and WEAK! And they think they can overthrow Democratic Freedom in the US and Freedom in Europe! America is the only Nation with enough Balls and Foresite to do something about it! The UK just Pussied Out! That's it boys. I hope you and your children are ready for a lifetime of the Bullsh!t. Cause these guys ARE in it for the long haul. And the Wimpy left and deluded Democrats think if we just walk away from it, it will all go away. God Help Us ALL!

[VitaminG]

This is friggin ridiculous! Friggin Royal Marines aren't hacks! Why didn't they fight, or at least not give up,and said they were in the wrong waters. Our American Soldiers haven't done this. The blood of the US Soldiers who died under enemy torture in the Middle East screams out to them, and us all!!!! Did they die in vain so this rogue Nation of Iran can make a mockery of the UK! and the US!. These guys should be Court Mashalled! The Muslim extremistist think we a FAT, PAMPERED, STUPID and WEAK! And they think they can overthrow Democratic Freedom in the US and Freedom in Europe! America is the only Nation with enough Balls and Foresite to do something about it! The UK just Pussied Out! That's it boys. I hope you and your children are ready for a lifetime of the Bullsh!t. Cause these guys ARE in it for the long haul. And the Wimpy left and deluded Democrats think if we just walk away from it, it will all go away. God Help Us ALL!

hey keegs, you have a teenage son, right? Are you going to encourage him to sign on to fight the good fight? What would you have him do if he found himself in a similar situation? Start firing at the enemy despite being grossly outnumbered? Or hopefully realise that he is seriously outnumbered and play it cool - as charvelguy said, to live to fight another day.

If any of these Royal Marines had stood up to their captors, refused to repeat what they were being told to say to camera, we would never have seen the footage anyway. No one would be watching it to say "good on them for not pussing out". The Iranians just wouldn't have broadcast it, and would use footage of the more compliant hostages instead. Plus, the Marines didn't know that railing against their captors wouldn't have meant their head on a pike anyway. At least give them credit for realising that if they can get out of an untenable situation with their asses intact, they are still around to go on kicking enemy butt, a concept the suicide bombers don't seem to grasp.

[ilbianconero]

They had to wait until they were home in Britain and debriefed before they knew it was okay to tell the real story.[/quote]

But what makes you think that they're not lying now?
They already lied before, so, it shows you that they're capable of juicing up stories again.

They were under pressure then. yes!
Aren't they under pressure now?

[charvelguy]

From their boss and their peers yes, not from their captors or kidnappers who took them by force... different circumstances and reasoning involved.

[StukaJU87]

I don't know how it is in the UK for their Marines. This is what I was taught, and it was not open to interpretation, as some seem to think.

http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/code_conduct.htm

[dd3keegs]

hey keegs, you have a teenage son, right? Are you going to encourage him to sign on to fight the good fight? What would you have him do if he found himself in a similar situation? Start firing at the enemy despite being grossly outnumbered? Or hopefully realise that he is seriously outnumbered and play it cool - as charvelguy said, to live to fight another day.

You talking to ex-US Army Ranger. Yes I would tell him to fight! I have told him he may need to fight if drafted. His best friend is joining the US Infantry next summer...and Asked to go and fight. My son will have to fight these guys one day. Whether it is through the Draft on their turf on on our ground has yet to be determined! And from the looks of things we are not going to learn the lesson that the ruthless SCUMBAGS will try again...and again!..and again! I got an interesting story for you. In the early 90s(Pre-911) I went to College and happened to live next door to 2 Muslims in my dorm. The only Muslims at a Christian College. I befriended them with the hopes to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to find out where Muslims come from with thier belief. One was from Pakistan and the other was Somalia(Actually the Grandson of the 1st President of Somalia). When they found out I was ex-military the Somalian got friendly..and one day pulled me aside asked for all the information I had on the 3rd Ranger Batallion in Ft. Benning ,Ga(where I was stationed!) He wanted to know how to get to it. Where the entrances where. Headquaters, Armory, schedules etc....! He asked me this point blank. At that moment I realized this Somalian Muslim was up to something weird. I turned to him and told him that if he or the people who had persuaded him to get this intel from me did anything to the US Amry Rangers..."they would hunt them down and kill them!" I told him "that's what they do!" They live to do it!" And no I did not tell him anything. We kind of drifted apart after that. When I did see him some time later...I told him I was uncertain of declaring a Major. He immediately pulled out and enrollment form the Emory Flight School in Florida and said become a Pilot with me and we will learn how to fly 727s!(This was in 1993*pre-9/11!!!!!!) I remember his Pakistani friend looking at him in horror...saying he was crazy! None of this stuff really came back to me until after 9/11. I did forward his name and what happened to the FBI. Gentleman...this shit has been planned for years. It is like a right of passage for them! We need to FIGHT now! As far as the Brits being out gunned. I don't know about that! Does any Navy guys know what they were up against?!

[ilbianconero]

From their boss and their peers yes, not from their captors or kidnappers who took them by force... different circumstances and reasoning involved.

But for me "that's different " argument has never been valid.
I just don't trust people easily. I need hard facts not just word of the mouth. Forget about word of the mouth.
You say the situation was different. I say hance the lies were different too.
Slap'em up with a lie detector test if you really want to know for sure, otherwise, we can argue till we're blue in the face since there's no proof one way or other.
They even wanted to sell for money. Why not to give up the story (if you're gonna give it up) for free?

[charvelguy]

I was gonna say, their training should have prepped them better for this.
I'm not a military guy.. so CoC during peacetime? I understand, you're still the active military. Had they fought or were at war with Iran, yes..to me, this is more like I'm in Mexico at the airport and now I have 5 guys with guns out ready to shoot me full of holes.. or cops at a routine traffic stop.

You would think they started with following the CoC but they had to be under intense psychological pressure and likely realized they were going to be used for propaganda purposes.. living or dead. The reward for being honest and fighting back could have started a war.. tough choice for each of them separately that each of had to make on their own.. I live if I admit to accidently crossing a line as opposed to never seeing my family again. They didn't fire a shot.. your sense of reasonableness would eventually dictate that it was a minor misunderstanding and it could be cleared up if they played along. Especially if it all happened so quick that you really weren't sure if everyone knows what your position truly was at the time.

If your told your fellow mates have already gone home and what if one of them caved and they did say it..on film, testimony and your now being told.. this person is already on their way home. Now that was shown to the others to get them to break..coerced

Its probably going to change alot for any personel in the region, US and UK regarding CoC and procedure.

[hippietim]

So Scott and Keegs, let's leave out what they said for a moment and talk about their capture. Are you are saying that it would have been better for the captured Brits, the British people, and the US if those Brits had stood and fought and most assuredly died? I certainly hope that's not what you are saying.

[charvelguy]

wow Keegs, you were face to face with these guys and their creed. The writing was on the wall after the first attempt in '93. Especially when the guy captured says.. 'not this time' to the "still standing" comment..meaning we may have not got you today, but we will.