Iran Takes 15 British Soldiers At Gunpoint

[drockilles]

Does any Navy guys know what they were up against?!

I know on my ship when a VBSS team (vist, board, search, and seizure) went out, they carried a few small arms. Some had MP5s, some 9mm, some shotguns. I wouldn't consider that enough protection if you're in a RHIB going against an actual ship. Of course, our RHIBS were launched from the ship and never ventured too far away from us (not sure about the Brits). If someone wanted to fuck with the RHIB, our 25mm or 5 inch sure would have persuaded them not too. On a side note, a large deck US ship (USS Pueblo) has surrendered before, to North Korea. They didn't have their 50 cals manned and were taking on some fire. The North Koreans took the crew as POWs, and still have the ship as a tourist attraction, and it's still in comission.

[Tashtego]

[fett]

I have a question. How could all 15 people know where the fuck they were? What did they do, have a powwow and talk about going OB to board that ship?

[lerxstcat]

But for me "that's different " argument has never been valid.
I just don't trust people easily. I need hard facts not just word of the mouth. Forget about word of the mouth.
You say the situation was different. I say hance the lies were different too.
Slap'em up with a lie detector test if you really want to know for sure, otherwise, we can argue till we're blue in the face since there's no proof one way or other.
They even wanted to sell for money. Why not to give up the story (if you're gonna give it up) for free?

Easy for you to opine from your comfy chair on your computer. As has been said, until you've faced gun barrels, you don't have a clue.

And since the British government specifically allowed these service persons to sell their stories, making an exception to a general rule not to do so, why SHOULDN'T they sell them instead of giving them away?

These people have families, and they will also go back into service and face danger again. If they're killed or maimed elsewhere, do you really begrudge them and their families the extra security that that money will bring? After they have served YOUR country?

[lerxstcat]

I have a question. How could all 15 people know where the fuck they were? What did they do, have a powwow and talk about going OB to board that ship?

GPS unit, I'd guess... and I believe their assignment was to board and inspect ships on a routine basis looking for contraband.

[fett]

I know that. But is it SOP to tell everyone onboard their location? I would think the dude running the boat and the navigator and maybe 1 or 2 others might have known. But, why the other members? It wasn't a commando raid.

[lerxstcat]

Well, I'd think they'd know they were staying inside Iraqi waters for the mission, knowing that if they really did stray into Iranian waters they'd snag them. Also, a launch not being that big, they probably all heard when they radioed in their coordinates before or as they were being accosted by the Iranian vessel. I'm just guessing. If it were a shoip with hundreds of personnel then I'd see your point.

[charvelguy]

Thats my point..I don't believe all of them outside of the navigator or a commanding officer would know if they had crossed a meter into Iranian territory or not. There was alot of discussion about that from interviews of previously captured British personel on the BBC.. they may have crossed over it in and out..or not at all when in pursuit.

There's much of the details left undisclosed. You can sit here and speculate on it.
Not being military myself..and having not been there I really can only have an opinion.

I haven't read any of their stories but I don't doubt the Marines were, name rank, serial.
If you are seperated.. all you have to do is break one and pry from there.
Keeping in mind you are dependent upon your captors for food, water, bathroom, not to mention your life at that point.
If you believed you did not do anything illegal and you didn't fire a shot.. you pretty much hope the truth weighs over lies and you'll be able to go home eventually and fight again some other day when the odds are better.

[rjohnstone]

Classic... I love that pic.

[ilbianconero]

Easy for you to opine from your comfy chair on your computer. As has been said, until you've faced gun barrels, you don't have a clue.

And since the British government specifically allowed these service persons to sell their stories, making an exception to a general rule not to do so, why SHOULDN'T they sell them instead of giving them away?

These people have families, and they will also go back into service and face danger again. If they're killed or maimed elsewhere, do you really begrudge them and their families the extra security that that money will bring? After they have served YOUR country?

Listen sunshine!
I said this before and have to repeat myself again:
They were pressurised to act a certain way in Iran and then when they came back they had to undo that or a lot of people would've been pissed off (probably still are).
I mean suppose (just suppose) the Iranians treated them great and they had been smiling on TV (the footages). Do you think when they got back they would've said: O, Iranians were great. I'm planning to go on holiday there.
Do you reallythink they would've admitted to it?
If they said that, they would've been crucified.
Therefore, they would've pretended that: They had guns stuck on our heads, so we had to smile, etc, etc.

But now (in reality) that there were pressure on them and they smiled a little bit too much, they would have to paint a suitable enough a picture afterwards to redeem themselves + public want to hear about ugliness.

So, I keep an open mind and try to stay unbiased. I neither fully buy the Iranian side nor do I buy the British side of the story.

When money in involved, people tend to spice things up.

And if I have a gun stuck in my head, I will be no hero, I will talk but atleast won't show my teeth on TV all the time. I'll just sit quiet.
If they put a gun on my head and said: smile, then I would smile too, but you could still see the fear (unhappiness, etc) on my face since it would be artificial (these guys' smiles seemed real). If you couldn't spot the unhappiness , then I deserve an Oscar for it.

Truth is normally (if not always) somewhere between what either sides say.

[lerxstcat]

Better treat your crack dealer right, buddy! He is obviously selling you some good shit! :ROTF:

Listen sunshine!
I said this before and have to repeat myself again:
They were pressurised to act a certain way in Iran and then when they came back they had to undo that or a lot of people would've been pissed off (probably still are).
I mean suppose (just suppose) the Iranians treated them great and they had been smiling on TV (the footages). Do you think when they got back they would've said: O, Iranians were great. I'm planning to go on holiday there.
Do you reallythink they would've admitted to it?
If they said that, they would've been crucified.
Therefore, they would've pretended that: They had guns stuck on our heads, so we had to smile, etc, etc.

But now (in reality) that there were pressure on them and they smiled a little bit too much, they would have to paint a suitable enough a picture afterwards to redeem themselves + public want to hear about ugliness.

So, I keep an open mind and try to stay unbiased. I neither fully buy the Iranian side nor do I buy the British side of the story.

When money in involved, people tend to spice things up.

And if I have a gun stuck in my head, I will be no hero, I will talk but atleast won't show my teeth on TV all the time. I'll just sit quiet.
If they put a gun on my head and said: smile, then I would smile too, but you could still see the fear (unhappiness, etc) on my face since it would be artificial (these guys' smiles seemed real). If you couldn't spot the unhappiness , then I deserve an Oscar for it.

Truth is normally (if not always) somewhere between what either sides say.

[ilbianconero]

Better treat your crack dealer right, buddy! He is obviously selling you some good shit! :ROTF:

I'll be honest with you. I don't do crack but I do do steroids.

[Cleveland Metal]

I'll be honest with you. I don't do crack but I do do steroids.

Nuff said, hehe...

[dd3keegs]

I know on my ship when a VBSS team (vist, board, search, and seizure) went out, they carried a few small arms. Some had MP5s, some 9mm, some shotguns. I wouldn't consider that enough protection if you're in a RHIB going against an actual ship. Of course, our RHIBS were launched from the ship and never ventured too far away from us (not sure about the Brits). If someone wanted to fuck with the RHIB, our 25mm or 5 inch sure would have persuaded them not too. On a side note, a large deck US ship (USS Pueblo) has surrendered before, to North Korea. They didn't have their 50 cals manned and were taking on some fire. The North Koreans took the crew as POWs, and still have the ship as a tourist attraction, and it's still in comission.

I heard an interesting thought concerning these Shipmates. A commentor suggested that these guys were being watched by the Iranians for quite sometime. The Iranians were probably looking for the weakest link. The sloppy boat the was lax on S.O.P. My guess is they left themselves compromised instead of preparing for the worst.

[dd3keegs]

So Scott and Keegs, let's leave out what they said for a moment and talk about their capture. Are you are saying that it would have been better for the captured Brits, the British people, and the US if those Brits had stood and fought and most assuredly died? I certainly hope that's not what you are saying.

Maybe so...how many US soldiers lost thier lives when captured in Iraq by insurgents. It seems to me the US Soldiers stick by a creed. Even so...they shouldn't have caved in and admitted that the Iranian waters were crossed over by thier ship. Which was a lie, anyway! Yeah...they saved thier asses...but what inel did they trade to save them. How many lives are in danger with the info they gave up! They even gave up thier Uniforms! You can bet that The Pres. of Iran was sending a Message. Let us capture your Soldiers...and we'll return them as civilians! We are going to GO TO WAR with Iran. Lets not delude ourselves! I don't want to see this, anymore than you do. But you got to admit this is coming to a head. We can't just walk away and pretend all is well. They take it as a sign of weakness...and will pursue us.