Iran Takes 15 British Soldiers At Gunpoint

[Rsmacker]

Evidently one of the captives was "broken" by the Iranians flicking his neck and calling him Mr Bean.
Oh, and he cried because they took his i-pod. HIS FUCKING I-POD?????

Now, I've never been in the services, I enjoy drink, drugs, staying in bed all day, and telling authority figures to fuck off, though I would jump at the chance to use a big F.O gun so I could pick off villagers, erm, I mean "insurgents" from a long long way off in relative safety, so I doubt they would accept my application.
I do, however, respect those who DO go and sign up, though I think some of them need to have it drummed into them that they may possibly be coming home in a bag, that it's not all helping dig wells and smiling children, and that their job boils down to one thing - being better at killing the enemy than they are at killing us. So with that in mind, why the fuck would they want to take an i-pod out when they are out on patrol, in a potentially hot zone??? I think some serious arses need kicking in the M.O.D, and the Royal Navy.

This is what happens when you send boys (and girls) to do a man's job.

Incidentally, they are no longer trained to just give name,rank and serial number - they are advised to co-operate, or be passively compliant, if they can do so without "compromising" their comrades/mission/country.
Of course, as any torturer/interrogator/intelligence expert will tell you, any titbit of info other than the Name/Rank/Serial may be useful to the enemy, may help break down another person if it is dropped into an interrogation. What seems innocent enough to you might be the final straw to a SAS man being seriously put through the mill in another cell.

So once again, it comes down to the powers that be turning the armed forces, in the UK at least, into a poncy "career option". They try to tell you it is all jolly exciting and you learn real skills, trades, but neglect to mention the possibility you are cannon fodder, and might be scraping your mate's brains off your face when you are hiding in a fox-hole somewhere in a puddle of your own shit and piss.

In the good old days, you just had numbskull aggressive squaddies who joined up because they weren't really fit to do anything else, had no ambition and were pretty thick. Not really the nicest people to bump into in Aldershot on Friday night when the pubs shut. They did, however, selflessly put themselves at risk in War Zones without question or comment, killed Johnny Foreigner admirably and preserved our way of life, ensuring I was free to laze around all day in comfort. For that I thank them.

I don't thank the politicians for using the Forces as a cheap alternative to proper apprenticeships, and then wondering why when the kiddies get caught in a tight spot, they cave in and behave like 6th formers on a school trip.

[lerxstcat]

The British are getting out of there, they're not looking to engage in a new war with Iran. These Marines and sailors were probably under orders NOT to engage Iranians.

The US almost certainly WILL end up in a conflict with Iran, but even though we are allies of the British, we're two separate countries. Britain doesn't have the will to fight this fight at this stage. Maybe when the Iranians conduct a terror attack on British assets they will, but it will be us alone at first. This provocation was against Britain; we can't respond to this with war if the offended party won't even do that.

If those were US soldiers or Marines, they may well be under orders to fight and die, to create the provocation for a US attack. The British weeren't, most likely.

I don't see how what they did gave up any intel of use to the Iranians anyway. As for giving up their uniforms, that's pretty simple: You're disarmed. Someone trains a weapon on you and tells you to remove your uniform. You really have no choice. They're not traitors for avoiding torture, as long as they didn't divulge military secrets.

Maybe so...how many US soldiers lost thier lives when captured in Iraq by insurgents. It seems to me the US Soldiers stick by a creed. Even so...they shouldn't have caved in and admitted that the Iranian waters were crossed over by thier ship. Which was a lie, anyway! Yeah...they saved thier asses...but what inel did they trade to save them. How many lives are in danger with the info they gave up! They even gave up thier Uniforms! You can bet that The Pres. of Iran was sending a Message. Let us capture your Soldiers...and we'll return them as civilians! We are going to GO TO WAR with Iran. Lets not delude ourselves! I don't want to see this, anymore than you do. But you got to admit this is coming to a head. We can't just walk away and pretend all is well. They take it as a sign of weakness...and will pursue us.

[Snoogans]

Steady on mate, you're talking sense there. You'll upset the Beardy Liberals!
By the way, aren't our service personnel required to sign the Official Secrets Act?

[dd3keegs]

The British are getting out of there, they're not looking to engage in a new war with Iran. These Marines and sailors were probably under orders NOT to engage Iranians.

The US almost certainly WILL end up in a conflict with Iran, but even though we are allies of the British, we're two separate countries. Britain doesn't have the will to fight this fight at this stage. Maybe when the Iranians conduct a terror attack on British assets they will, but it will be us alone at first. This provocation was against Britain; we can't respond to this with war if the offended party won't even do that.

If those were US soldiers or Marines, they may well be under orders to fight and die, to create the provocation for a US attack. The British weeren't, most likely.

I don't see how what they did gave up any intel of use to the Iranians anyway. As for giving up their uniforms, that's pretty simple: You're disarmed. Someone trains a weapon on you and tells you to remove your uniform. You really have no choice. They're not traitors for avoiding torture, as long as they didn't divulge military secrets.

Right...new policy then...SURRENDER....HHHHMMM. Do you guys really think these guys are going to stop. Check the AP. Algeria was bomb today by Al Queda. Several Government buildings. It seems there is a Al Queda plot to make all of Northern African an Islamic State. The last elections in Algeria were going to fall into the hands of Muslim
Canidates and the Government canned them. (Oh Yeah for those checking... Northern Africa Is right under Spain(another submissive European Nation-easily influenced) and Europe! France is being threatened also. Elections are coming up. According to the leave them alone and surrender policy suggested here...France is an outstanding example. Yet now they are receiving threats of bombings. And Algeria gets it yesterday (their 4/11 attack) It would stand to reason that Frances decision to to obey the Islamic Terrorist demands(not get involved) should have caused them to leave France alone. But...LO and BEHOLD, Al Queda is becoming emboldened by what they see as weakeness on the French's Part.

[charvelguy]

No, I do not believe 'they' in its many various forms are going to stop. Iran wants nuclear tech for stated peaceful purpose, but the way to peace is conform to Islam or rid the world of any potential enemy threat to the stability of Islam. We are back to a cold war type status with Iran much like we were with the Soviets after WW2. In that respect, its like late 1940's all over again.
They don't agree with 'metality' of Israel.. and the Hezbollah put up a good resistance against Israel last year. Convenionally, it will not be an easy conflict.
They're already taxing current troops. They're pushing to extend tour of duty for Army another three months, most of the rest will likely follow suit sooner or later.

I got an idea. lets give all the illegals temporary citizen status.. then initiate the draft. I think that would ebb the tide so to speak on one front and bolster the troop demand with a new found pool of candidates.
I sarcastically jest of course.

[lerxstcat]

I don't think they're going to stop and I think that we will deal with attacks and provocations against us. But we can't force Britain to do that when they are pulling out right now, nor is it OUR place to attack Iran because they fucked with the British forces - unless Britain asked us as their ally to do so.

I think Britain, and the EU as an entity and as its constituent countries, will eventually realize they have to fight Al Qaeda. But they are not yet willing to face that, and instead look at us as the troublemakers as if we've stirred things up. They'll figure it out when they continue to get attacked even though they back away from confrontation.

But we can't make them realize this, they have to figure it out for themselves. And this particular incident was Britain's to decide what to do. It wasn't the US's place to do anything unless asked.

Right...new policy then...SURRENDER....HHHHMMM. Do you guys really think these guys are going to stop. Check the AP. Algeria was bomb today by Al Queda. Several Government buildings. It seems there is a Al Queda plot to make all of Northern African an Islamic State. The last elections in Algeria were going to fall into the hands of Muslim
Canidates and the Government canned them. (Oh Yeah for those checking... Northern Africa Is right under Spain(another submissive European Nation-easily influenced) and Europe! France is being threatened also. Elections are coming up. According to the leave them alone and surrender policy suggested here...France is an outstanding example. Yet now they are receiving threats of bombings. And Algeria gets it yesterday (their 4/11 attack) It would stand to reason that Frances decision to to obey the Islamic Terrorist demands(not get involved) should have caused them to leave France alone. But...LO and BEHOLD, Al Queda is becoming emboldened by what they see as weakeness on the French's Part.

[Rsmacker]

It would have been just US and UK then, because the British ship was there enforcing a UN resolution. However, when the Security Council was asked to protest, what did we get? Deafening silence, apart from the hawks in the US, who, alas, are seen as warmongers, frothing at the mouth. FFS, the rest of them baulked at the wording of the official statement, getting their panties in a knot about whether Iran's actions should be "deplored", instead opting to express "grave concerns". I bet that had Ayatollah Dinnerjacket shaking in his curled up shoes.

It has to be remembered that Britain is a tiny country, with limited resources. We have troops fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq, still some in the Balkans etc. To kick anybody's arse, it would take some serious re-organisation and redeployment. Oh, and cash. The British public simply wouldn't accept it, especially after the porkies Bush and Blair told to get us into the current debacle in Iraq.

Incidentally, since when have the British been "pulling out"? Absolutely nothing has been said here, if you know something we don't, pray tell. Something solid, like an official statement, not an assumption that just because we aren't piling in, we are on the way out. As far as I'm aware, troop levels are the same, and despite attempts to hand back power to the Iraqis, there are no plans to leave just yet.

Note: If the Argies think we would roll over now because we are a bit stretched, and it's worth having another go at the Falklands, forget it. I will personally row out there to keep that pile British. Spineless greasy dagos.

[charvelguy]

I gotta love the Brits.. simply for the way ya talk m8. (or is that an Aussie term?)

Here's the news: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1415516.ece

This coincided with the addition of 21,000 US troops to the region, which is why to us here in the states the message was pretty clear, GB didn't want much more to do with upscaling troop force to the region for greater coverage and future conflicts.

[Rsmacker]

Hmmmmm, veeeeeery interesting. I wonder whether he actually announced it, cos I certainly missed it. Probably something of far greater importance was hogging the front pages. Like Robbie Williams being addicted to Red Bull. Sheeeeeesh.

Unless it was when he decided he was bringing troops home from Iraq, then announced he was beefing up the force in Ass-ghanistan.

[VitaminG]

Robbie's addicted to Red Bull?!? Man, I just keep up with changes in current affairs.

[dd3keegs]

I think Britain, and the EU as an entity and as its constituent countries, will eventually realize they have to fight Al Qaeda. But they are not yet willing to face that, and instead look at us as the troublemakers as if we've stirred things up. They'll figure it out when they continue to get attacked even though they back away from confrontation.

But we can't make them realize this, they have to figure it out for themselves. And this particular incident was Britain's to decide what to do. It wasn't the US's place to do anything unless asked.

I know...I know. The Brits are Big boys and they can decide if they don't want to play... if they don't want too. But from my perspective I see the the UK as the last European Nation with enough common sense to see the credible threat that lies ahead.

[dd3keegs]

It would have been just US and UK then, because the British ship was there enforcing a UN resolution.

(The UN resolutions are meant to be ignored, as far as Iran sees it. The US and UK were the only Nations who saw UN Resolutions as something to be respected. )

I bet that had Ayatollah Dinnerjacket shaking in his curled up shoes.

(Maybe...all I see is the Pres. of Iran talking Sh!t about the US and UK everyday!)

It has to be remembered that Britain is a tiny country, with limited resources. We have troops fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq, still some in the Balkans etc. To kick anybody's arse, it would take some serious re-organisation and redeployment. Oh, and cash. The British public simply wouldn't accept it, especially after the porkies Bush and Blair told to get us into the current debacle in Iraq.

(We could wipe out IRANS NAVY in a day...didn't we already do that?)

Incidentally, since when have the British been "pulling out"? Absolutely nothing has been said here, if you know something we don't, pray tell. Something solid, like an official statement, not an assumption that just because we aren't piling in, we are on the way out. As far as I'm aware, troop levels are the same, and despite attempts to hand back power to the Iraqis, there are no plans to leave just yet..

(Just wait...the British people have lost their wisdom and resolve....Blair's on the way out. His replacement will try and do what the Democrats are pulling here-CUT AND RUN!- all so Blair's replacement can gain the favor of the weak willed deluded Brits- The Iron Lady and Winston Churchill must be turning over in thier graves. Sorry mate but the writtings on the wall. Maybe a few more Underground explosions maybe necessary to wake up the UK. Would you like London to be known as Londonistan? Iran certainly cannot wait to use Nukes as an extortion tool. )

Note: If the Argies think we would roll over now because we are a bit stretched, and it's worth having another go at the Falklands, forget it. I will personally row out there to keep that pile British. Spineless greasy dagos.

(The Argies Al Queda is trying to set up North Africa under Islamic rule and strategically place Jihadists as a viable threat to Europe from the south! You guys are being sized up! And the bully in the playground has just decided you are are weak....You ready to hand over your lunch money?)

[RacerX]

I got an idea. lets give all the illegals temporary citizen status.. then initiate the draft. I think that would ebb the tide so to speak on one front and bolster the troop demand with a new found pool of candidates.
I sarcastically jest of course.

Bush beat you to it: there already exists an Executive Order giving foreign-born immigrants citizenship for serving:

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/sections/nation_world/nation_world/article_308176.php

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/opinion/localstatecolumns/article_1556240.php

Also, just today I read in the paper about a Congressional immigration proposal that calls for mandatory military service for illegals.

[VitaminG]

(The UN resolutions are meant to be ignored, as far as Iran sees it. The US and UK were the only Nations who saw UN Resolutions as something to be respected. )

where would be without the Coalition of the Willing? I was under the impression it included more than just the US & the UK. But then, maybe I imagined the Aussie troops (and others) being deployed to Iraq. Or the additional troops the Aussie PM have just promised to send. I guess with the British pulling out, the US will be the only foreign forces in all the Middle East....

(Just wait...the British people have lost their wisdom and resolve....Blair's on the way out. His replacement will try and do what the Democrats are pulling here-CUT AND RUN!- all so Blair's replacement can gain the favor of the weak willed deluded Brits- The Iron Lady and Winston Churchill must be turning over in thier graves. Sorry mate but the writtings on the wall. Maybe a few more Underground explosions maybe necessary to wake up the UK. Would you like London to be known as Londonistan? Iran certainly cannot wait to use Nukes as an extortion tool. )

Where's my tin foil hat? Everytime the enemy changes, the old threat is trotted out "If we don't blow them out of the water, you'll all be speaking German/Japanese/Russian/etc"

I'd like to think that the Iron Lady is spinning in her grave. Maybe it's just my age group, but I haven't spoken to a single Englishman or Irishman who thought that Thatcher's time as PM was a good thing for the UK.

(The Argies Al Queda is trying to set up North Africa under Islamic rule and strategically place Jihadists as a viable threat to Europe from the south! You guys are being sized up! And the bully in the playground has just decided you are are weak....You ready to hand over your lunch money?)

The Al Queda has forces in Argentina? And they're trying to setup North Africa under Islamic rule to attack Europe? South America seems a long way away to coordinate such an attack. Wouldn't it make more sense to just utilise their operatives already in, or at least closer to, Europe?

[dd3keegs]

where would be without the Coalition of the Willing? I was under the impression it included more than just the US & the UK. But then, maybe I imagined the Aussie troops (and others) being deployed to Iraq. Or the additional troops the Aussie PM have just promised to send. I guess with the British pulling out, the US will be the only foreign forces in all the Middle East....

(My apologies to Australia....But as far as I can see Substantial troop support comes primarily from the US, UK and Australia. ...indeed Australia has proven itself a great ally)

The Al Queda has forces in Argentina? And they're trying to setup North Africa under Islamic rule to attack Europe? South America seems a long way away to coordinate such an attack. Wouldn't it make more sense to just utilise their operatives already in, or at least closer to, Europe?

These guys are in it for the long haul. The Muslims were going to win last years Argentinian vote. Muslims are amassing in Europe...yes. Are all Al Queda...no. However, imagine a Muslim Minority voted in to European nations, who one day demand to be ruled under Koran regulated laws. Have you read the Koran? Jihad is a requirement. However the rule is that if your forces are double the powers that be(victory is assured)... then attack. If not... hold off until you can. Any good Muslim knows this. They believe this is God's Command. So called moderate Muslims have a more liberal view. But they are not seen as practicing Muslims. More like Christians who say they believe in God...but couldn't tell you why Jesus lived, died and was raised to life, and that they need to live a Holy life. You don't need a tin foil hat to see a credible threat. These guys will kill you...if not now...don't worry they'll wait till the time is right. They are abiding by God's commands as they see them.