Va. Tech shooting...

[Vlover]

Puts reports of "50 people killed in Iraq bombing" in prespective. And they go through something like this every day...

[OnlineStageGear]

bah, nevermind. i doubt i'll be able to convey what i meant effectively.

I know what you mean, plus nobody ever listens to me anyways.

[shreddermon]

If you believe the (typical) media blather, everyone and everything is to blame. Music, gun laws, video games, a girlfriend, maybe even his mama for not breastfeeding him when he was a baby. Everything except, of course, for the gunman's conscious decision to repeatedly pull the trigger.

I will say, though, that the VT administration's actions were highly suspect. I mean, they had a double murder in a dorm, knew the gunman was still on the loose, and they failed to shut the campus down? Hugely poor decision-making. It's a real poor time for blamestorming, but there's blood on their hands, IMHO.

[Cleveland Metal]

The place is the size of a city with population estimates ranging from 14,000-24,000 potential people in the area.

The officers came across a shooting, and were investigating. I really don't think they would logically shut down a a campus the size of a city in a quick enough fashion to do much. And, at that point, they may just be sending a shooter home that has blended in with the students already.

Prolly best to try to investigate and find the guy rather than locking people down and either 1). freak the dude out while he's with people he is now suddenly confined with, inciting a hostage situation/shooting. 2). Incite some form of hysteria and then they have a lot more to deal with, on top of a shooting, that will drain their ability to perform a thorough investigation.

Plus, how do they really communicate with that many people, doing a million diffeent things, thoroughly in that short of a period of time. You can't really.

I think they did ok. Shame it ended up the way it did, but I don't think they could have really done a lot more. Consider the resources they had, the info they had, and the situation at hand.

Anyone can look back on it and Monday morning quarterback for sure, as all the media asses doing, but they were there on hand and had to deal with it. The first responder were prolly young campus policemen, but the local and statey's were quickly there are fairly professional men that do this for a living.

You have to trust that these men did the best they could. Do you REALLY think they did anything but the best they could when they have a dead student there? I doubt it.

[StukaJU87]

That is probably the stupidest thing you've ever posted Newc.

Nah.

[shreddermon]

Not blaming the cops, Cleve. ...Although maybe there was blame to share there, too. Remains to be seen.

What I mean was the college administration. You have a double murder at 7AM, the administration should decide to shut the f**kin' campus down. Classes are cancelled. All dorms are locked down. Classrooms are evacuated and buildings locked up. I don't care how big the campus is. You shut down the immediate area, ask the cops to block the access roads, detour traffic to send commuters home. Maybe expand it from there. You do what you can with whatever resources you have available, and possibly call in more.

Whatever you do, you don't act like it's just another schoolday, and let teachers and students go about their normal business. And that's basically how the administration acted, shortly after the first incident was cleared. Maybe they made those decisions based on law enforcement recommendations. Or maybe there was a lack of thought or communication with law enforcement. Sure, I'm Monday morning quarterbacking. Absolutely. I'm not LE expert. But it's common freakin' sense.

There was a gunman incident at my old college a few years ago. Arguably the "size of a small city", too. Maybe not as spread out, campus-wise. But 12,000-ish students, many builddings, many locations. The college administration and cops shut that f**ker down quick. And, luckily, only one kid got shot. He eventually fully recovered, too.

[charvelguy]

I gotta admit.. when I saw those email time lapses.. and the content of the messages.. they did not have a clear idea of what was going on and if they did they weren't saying it nor did they want to incite a panic situation.

So what.. you gotta conceal and carry to protect yourself at school? A buddy of mine just got his conceal and carry license because of road rage.
He was saying how a 9mm doesn't effectively 'stop' someone from killing you if they were to act against you..hmm, makes me wonder. I'm not a gun owner so I'm not going to comment further on that. This guy being on a campus with dorms,.. even if they were to install metal detection and hire more security, which would increase school costs dramatically it would seem that someone who is determined to kill someone or many will be able to find a way to circumvent the system, especially if he's intent on taking his own life anyways.

the ability to walk freely within a school and not feel threatened is vital. It kinda irks me that they're portraying this guy as a 'loner'
Thats like a blanket excuse that he was of a 'profile' to do this.

[xenophobe]

Well, one thing is for certain... the school's ban on weapons didn't work. In fact, it may have made things worse. If only a teacher or student with a CCW were allowed to carry, the death toll might not have been so heinous.

[Cleveland Metal]

Something an article from Trainer/Author/Prosecutor/Patrolman, Captain Massad Ayoob:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob90.html

"The June 2004 issue of the Gottlieb-Tartaro Report carried the following item under the headline Armed Israeli Citizens Help Curb Terrorists: “Israel’s police spokesman Gil Kleiman says that citizens who carry their own guns are helping to curb the damage terrorists can inflict by being able to stop a terrorist situation. ‘We’ve seen it time and time again,’ said Kleiman. ‘Armed civilians who are well trained can save people’s lives. If there isn’t a policeman, civilians can deal immediately with a terrorist.’” Emphasis is Gottlieb’s and Tartaro’s. We need to remember, too, that all terrorism is not political. Two psychopathic teens inflicted a huge toll of death and tragedy at Columbine High School, acting out a sick agenda that was personal rather than political or religious. In Pearl, Mississippi, a young man in a similar state of mind murdered his mother with a knife to gain control of his estranged father’s deer rifle, which he then took to school. He shot several students, and was in the act of driving toward a nearby junior high school with the gun and a quantity of ammunition when he was interdicted at gunpoint by a courageous assistant principal who had retrieved a Colt .45 semiautomatic from his pickup truck in the parking lot. "

[charvelguy]

Our plant manager has a CCW. I don't know.. it opens up a whole can of worms as far as legalities. I don't see armories on campus but if a teacher wants to have a gun option, its probably the only solution outside of armed security.

[Spivonious]

Puts reports of "50 people killed in Iraq bombing" in prespective. And they go through something like this every day...

+1,000,000,000

[xenophobe]

Our plant manager has a CCW. I don't know.. it opens up a whole can of worms as far as legalities. I don't see armories on campus but if a teacher wants to have a gun option, its probably the only solution outside of armed security.

Of course using a firearm in self-defense or defense of others opens a whole can of legal worms... For one, you will be sued, even if you shoot a potential mass murderer or criminal.

You also face the potential of being sued if you miss and hit someone innocent, even if a murderer is on a spree.

You also face the potential of having criminal charges filed against you if you cannot prove that you were justified.

[charvelguy]

yeah, I was just reading this. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=510000

[Spivonious]

Well, one thing is for certain... the school's ban on weapons didn't work. In fact, it may have made things worse. If only a teacher or student with a CCW were allowed to carry, the death toll might not have been so heinous.

Yeah, because having a shootout in a classroom is a great thing. Guns solve everything, don't they?

[Cleveland Metal]

Yeah, best to let him walk unchallenged and kill as many people as he can. :rolleyes...

Think if one of your kids were there, and you had the option of the child being executed, or to take a chance going with a teacher that might have some ability to kill the guy before too many others were killed, what would you choose? I know my choice...