The 2nd Amendment

[Spivonious]

We need Bono to come out and lead the movement.

[rjohnstone]

I do agree that laws need to be revisited and/or revised from time to time.
The problem is getting a majority to agree on anything.
There a two sides to every issue and this one has a history that goes to the core of our country. I strongly believe that I, as a responsible and law abiding citizen, should have the right to own a firearm. I also believe that there are some people who are just not capable or responsible enough to own one.
The process to identify those people and deny them a firearm is not an exact science. Our laws have been reviewed and revised many times over to make it all but impossible for someone to walk into a store and buy a handgun on the spot.
One must apply to buy a handgun and then wait for the required checks to be completed before they actually take possession of the gun.
This was done to prevent the "heat of the moment" type purchase.
This does not apply to shotguns or small caliber rifles. I can walk into a Wal-Mart and walk out with a shotgun in about 20 minutes.
I find this interesting as I can do more damage with a shotgun and a box of Magnum Steel shot than I can with a handgun. I would need to reload more often though. But anyone who is proficient with a pump style shotgun can reload one in less than 10 seconds.
I was a member of the NRA many years ago, but their politics, not their purpose, got a little to crazy for me.

[scotty2]

We need Bono to come out and lead the movement.

Oh please anything but that. Keep the guns, just don't let Bono get up on another soap box!!! Oh I forgot, he's a midget anyway so he needs the soap box!!!!

[lerxstcat]

We need Bono to come out and lead the movement.

You're trying to get him shot, aren't you? :ROTF:

[Wayniac]

In CT, I am pretty sure that if you are being or have been treated for depression, then they do not have to give you a permit (and will usually refuse it). I do not know how it works if you already have a permit and then enter treatement for depression...

[Wayniac]

In CT, I am pretty sure that if you are being or have been treated for depression, then they do not have to give you a permit (and will usually refuse it). I do not know how it works if you already have a permit and then enter treatement for depression...
Seems like a weird loophole, on top of the fact that he isn't actually a US citizen...

[rjohnstone]

In CT, I am pretty sure that if you are being or have been treated for depression, then they do not have to give you a permit (and will usually refuse it). I do not know how it works if you already have a permit and then enter treatement for depression...

There's no way the state would know if an applicant was being treated for depression either before or after a permit was issued. That information is private.
HIPPA laws prevent your doctor from releasing personal health information to anyone without your written consent unless it is in the interest of public health and safety.
Depression is not considered a threat to public health or safety. If it was, half the population would be deemed a threat.

Clinical depression is treatable and if he was in a severe state of depression, the best his doctor could have done was report him as a possible risk of committing suicide.

If he was deemed psychotic, he could have been institutionalized or detained for the safety of the public. But his doctor apparently didn't think he was.

Again.. a clear case of the media blowing shit out of proportion.
Depression is the most common mental health disorder in the world.

[rjohnstone]

Just read the latest news release and it appears the guy was mentally disturbed beyond depression.
So much so that was described as "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as a result of mental illness, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment."

That information should have shown up on a background check since it went through the judicial system.
Either somebody fucked up or he bought the gun before that occurred.

[xenophobe]

PROOF that Virginia Tech College Staff and Campus Police are partly responsible for letting this happen. For the past several years, bills which would have forced VATech to allow students and staff to carry concealed weapons have been fought by the College and campus police:

From a google cache of the VA Tech website itself (which has oddly been removed from VA Tech's web site:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Nltmp4mqZHMJ:www.vtnews.vt.edu/story.php%3Frelyear%3D2007%26itemno%3D149+prohibit+students+from+carrying&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

And PROOF that a mass murder doesn't have to use a firearm to kill:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[xenophobe]

please don’t tell me that the right to bear arms in the US is more important than the right to exist.

The right to keep and bear arms directly relates to the right to exist.

We are a federal republic of independent states. You live in a parlimentary monarchy. You do not have a Constitution or Bill of Rights. You do not have rights that are not specifically given to you by your country. Our rights are not given to us, but are acknowledged by and protected against government abuse by our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We are a free people. We have rights. You are subjects. You have privileges.

While it's nice that you say that guns have been banned, but you still have gun violence, you also don't have the ability to protect yourself from someone who would attack you with a firearm. See the irony?

You would give up your privileges to secure the false illusion of safety.

So if a burglar, murderer, rapist, breaks into your home, attacks your wife or daughter at gunpoint, you should just let him kill, rape or torture them? Yes, that is the preferred method of pacifists. Let criminals do whatever they want, while the general population has no control over their own destiny.

There is a reason why the original colonies revolted against the British Empire, and not much time has passed since the UK loosened the grip of their iron fisted rule over British territories...

So quickly do you forget the trials and tribulations of your own gun control laws, during WWII which the British Government was begging American Civilians to send over any and as many guns they could spare because the US Government could not provide enough firearms to you for your defense against possible invasion.

How dare you attack our freedoms. Well, I guess you don't have any clue to what rights are since your privileges are only granted to you as loyal subjects of the Monarchy.

Thank you for trying to dictate American policy. I guess you would rather have Catholics and Christians bombing each other in the city streets. That's where UK gun control has it's benefits.

[lerxstcat]

Just read the latest news release and it appears the guy was mentally disturbed beyond depression.
So much so that was described as "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization, and presents an imminent danger to self or others as a result of mental illness, or is so seriously mentally ill as to be substantially unable to care for self, and is incapable of volunteering or unwilling to volunteer for treatment."

That information should have shown up on a background check since it went through the judicial system.
Either somebody fucked up or he bought the gun before that occurred.

That happened as a result of him stalking 2 female students in 11/05 and 12/05, 2 separate incidents in which both filed complaints with the school.
He actually spent an unspecified time under observation in a local mental facility, which won't say how long he was held or who decided to release him, or why.

Apparently he was not in the system because the girls ultimately refused to press charges. If they had, the incident would have been in the system and he would have been denied legal purchase of a handgun.

Which doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten a gun. He's from suburban DC and would probably know where to get an illegal gun. Still, you have to wonder how those girls feel today, assuming they weren't victims.

[lerxstcat]

BTW, 2 great posts there, Xeno! That Bath township massacre I'd never heard of! At Sludge someone also posted of a school massacre in Japan in 2001 where a guy killed 8 and wounded 13 with only a kitchen knife. He was executed by hanging in 2004. Only took them 3 years to execute him. We could take a cue from that speedy justice.

[Spivonious]

Xeno, I originally asked for international opinion of our gun laws and what laws the poster's country had. Attacking scotty because he's from another country and is stating his opinion is unwarranted.

I know you have strong feelings for the subject, being a gun dealer and all, but try to not take things personally.

[xenophobe]

Well, I didn't personally attack him, however I did feel a need to correct him on a point that he made.

I'm no longer a gun dealer, but international opinion on our gun laws is much like asking your neighborhood to tell you how you should landscape your back yard.

[Spivonious]

Yet it could provide a viewpoint that you yourself would have never thought of. And I think I would be interested in my neighbor's opinion of my yard. Don't want to upset them