The 2nd Amendment

[OnlineStageGear]

Just look a couple of the cities that have some of the strictest gun laws out there like NYC and Washigton DC. They have extremely high gun related crime.

[hippietim]

Just look a couple of the cities that have some of the strictest gun laws out there like NYC and Washigton DC. They have extremely high gun related crime.

Right. They buy guns out of state.

[ABSOLUT CHARVEL]

Right. They buy guns out of state.

I think they buy guns from out of state. Like ones that have been stolen from idiots like your old neighbor.

[hippietim]

I think they buy guns from out of state. Like ones that have been stolen from idiots like your old neighbor.

He's YOUR neighbor now, not mine :ROTF:

[LouSiffer]

I love guns. Love to shoot them for personal competition...you know, what kind of pattern can I hold. That goes with anything from .22 target pistols to high powered sniper rifles.

Arguing about making guns illegal at this stage is completely pointless and moot. There are millions of guns on the streets. You will never collect them all. And the saying " Only criminals will own guns " could not be any more true. They have been around so long, you will never get rid of them.

In 2002, there were 43,354 motor vehicle deaths. There were 28,663 gun deaths including everything from accidental to gang warfare. How come you aren't wanting to ban cars?

Providing the gun is mechanically sound, the gun is only as dangerous as the person handling it. Just like a car. In fact, there is more that can go wrong in a car to cause an accident and death than there is with a gun. -Lou

[OnlineStageGear]

Well over 98% of all crimes involving guns are commited with illegal guns. How much more illegal do you want to make it ?

[Cleveland Metal]

Criminals using illegal guns to commit crimes? Why, that's against the law...

[hippietim]

Arguing about making guns illegal at this stage is completely pointless and moot. There are millions of guns on the streets. You will never collect them all. And the saying " Only criminals will own guns " could not be any more true. They have been around so long, you will never get rid of them.

That is certainly true if we won't even try.

In 2002, there were 43,354 motor vehicle deaths. There were 28,663 gun deaths including everything from accidental to gang warfare. How come you aren't wanting to ban cars?

Sorry but that's an incredibly lame argument. How many of those 28,663 gun deaths were accidents vs. the 43,354 motor vehicle deaths? Consider that about 25-30% of the US owns guns and about 70-75% drive cars and odds are very good that people drive their cars way more than they fire their guns. Your gun death stats aren't very supportive of guns being a good thing.

Providing the gun is mechanically sound, the gun is only as dangerous as the person handling it. Just like a car. In fact, there is more that can go wrong in a car to cause an accident and death than there is with a gun. -Lou

And finally, the lamest argument of all - "guns don't kill people, people kill people". I have walked away from 3 car accidents. I suspect many others here have as well. How many people walk away from being shot?

Cars have nothing to do with guns. But I can easily do nonsensical comparisons and extrapolate your logic and suggest that cocaine, heroin, date rape drugs, etc. should be legal because the drugs don't hurt anything - not until you take them. And the NRA suggests that we teach our children to handle guns at an early age, why not teach them how to know the best way to handle crack? Sure, I'm making ridiculous leaps here - I'm just trying to convey what your support of guns sounds like to me.

Do you think 33 people would have died at Va. Tech today if that dude couldn't get multiple handguns? Of course, the pro-gun folks will say that if everyone had a gun then 33 people wouldn't have died. I would agree because I think the number would be a lot higher.

[5074charvel]

My "european" standpoint?!

Watch this Michael Moore Movie. IIRC it ends with statistics. Number of people killed by firearms per year: It´s something like: Japan (120 million inhabitants) 20; UK: 35; Germany: 40, US: 28.000.

The numbers are from my memory so they´re not 100% correct. But to all people that are somehow pro-gun I assume you think that US society stands out from the above mentioned countries in a very civilized way because these "old-countries" have stupid gun regulations.

[hippietim]

Well over 98% of all crimes involving guns are commited with illegal guns. How much more illegal do you want to make it ?

Yes, the people that commit the crimes do not have legal permits for the guns. That has nothing to do with it because *somebody* obtained most of them legally at some point.

[Cleveland Metal]

Criminals will always get weapons Tim. Disarming the public will merely assure the criminals are safe to do what they wish.

If it were possible to truly eliminate them all, that's a somewhat different story. But, it isn't.

[hippietim]

Criminals will always get weapons Tim. Disarming the public will merely assure the criminals are safe to do what they wish.

If it were possible to truly eliminate them all, that's a somewhat different story. But, it isn't.

Again, this is certainly true if we continue to do nothing. That and the the apathy in the United States toward victims of violent crimes.

[xenophobe]

You're just a misguided and uninformed knee-jerk emotionalist who really has no clue as to what you're saying.

Perhaps if there were no guns (snap your fingers) it would have never happened.

I'd love to hear how you would legislate murdering out of existence. Of course, banning guns would get rid of gun violence, right? Cause all the criminals with guns will listen to the laws and give them up.

If the campus didn't have a gun-free zone banning the possession of firearms, perhaps the murderer might have been stopped by a teacher or student before the death toll grew.

Of course, calling 911 didn't help. Campus security didn't help. The police, who were already on the campus didn't stop it. But a few laws will. Yeah. You're smoking some good shit Tim.

[skorb]

I'd love to hear how you would legislate murdering out of existence. Of course, banning guns would get rid of gun violence, right? Cause all the criminals with guns will listen to the laws and give them up.

If the campus didn't have a gun-free zone banning the possession of firearms, perhaps the murderer might have been stopped by a teacher or student before the death toll grew.

I'm staying out of this argument, but I must say it's refreshing to hear this kind of position coming out of the Bay Area. I lived in SF for 5 years and I'm very conservative so I was like a fish out of water there.

most unusual!

[hippietim]

You're just a misguided and uninformed knee-jerk emotionalist who really has no clue as to what you're saying.

I've been surrounded by this shit all my life. I've just come to a different conclusion than you. That doesn't make me misguided or uninformed. And this is no knee-jerk emotion. You would have gotten the same responses from me 20 years ago.

Call me whatever you want, you're just another random jackass with an opinion on the Internet just like the rest of us.