Firearms

[442w30]

I would say that I enjoy target shooting, have been a totally informally trained armed guard, and taught myself a bit of gunsmithing before losing some interest in the hobby to a large extent.

That being said, people that know little about guns and aren't dedicated to their use and knowledge, should use a revolver or longarm (though concealment is not really an option with those if you must carry away from home).

The complexities of semiauto handguns in the hands of disinterested or unpracticed people is too much for safe handling generally, and it only gets worse if not practiced regularly.

As for JG's disdain for gun culture, I can sympathize to a degree, I believe some of that comes from three things working here:

1)You are "up east" where despising handguns/arms has been ingrained over many years and is a "given". There are not many instances that I am aware of with positive stories about guns in that region.
2) Many of these arguments for carry come from JCFers in Rural/Southern regions where safely handling guns is a "given" along with with a positive connotation with gun ownership and "hobbies".
3) The folks from 2) have likely assumed that the reasonable paths for defense in avoidance of conflict have been thoroughly investigated and this is not the first course of action.

That being said I would likely choose to fight another day "from a distance" but not knowing the exact circumstances must believe we have moved past that here.

I definitely think a good old hug/counseling is in order if possible

Kahr9 or 38Spl revolver gets my vote. I hope no one ever has to use it though

[Cleveland Metal]

Well said Lou....

[OnlineStageGear]

Most realistic cops do not fear law abiding citizens with guns.

That being said, if someone is a novice with a gun, a 9mm is not a good first gun choice for personal safety. I always recommend a snub-nose38 or something like that. It is basicly a point and shoot gun. In a panic situation, you don't have to worry about the safety, wether you have a round chambered, or accidentally hitting the clip eject.

Matt

[cookiemonster2]

Here's my rationale on self defense and handguns. Handguns suck for self defense. I'm not saying that because I'm a liberal. I'm saying that because I believe the best defense is a good offense, so if we are talking self defense we are really talking offense. Right?

Therefore I recommend you forget the handgun and get one of those .50 BMG sniper rifles which you can use to shoot someone from over a mile away through armour plating. That way the attacker never gets even close to you with their handgun.

That of course was sarcasm. This poster will not be held liable for anyone who actually takes the above noted advice. Shooting other people is illegal and immoral especially when it is planned.

[Cleveland Metal]

Well, I hope this doesn't upset you much... I don't mean to be mean...

I can't believe how many gun toting yahoo's are JCF members. Its actually sad. Everybody is offering different takes on which type of gun or laser sights you should get your family when instead they should be offering ideas on how to diffuse the situation without killing people. Its nuts.

It's obvious, that it's past diffuse mode. Any sane person would attempt that immediately. This is another mode and self defense is the question here.

Plus, If you asked me what cord to use on your vetta, would you want me to tell you how bad your vetta sounds and it's a bad idea to use it?

Or that maybe you're gonna kill yourself or hurt your wife on your new bike leaving your children parentless and that it is some bizarre insane middle aged complex you have that drawing you to getting a bike.

Don't think you'd like that... And it wouldn't be nice of me to say that. People gave you good advice. Same here.

I can't believe that the JCF is posting like crazy suggestions on which guns you should carry and the finer points of targeting people with different types of sights or trigger pulls or other things.

Hey, we're all over the place here...

You mentioned that "if everybody ran at the first sight of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged". Thats crap.

No, quite often, that really is how it really is man... Not sure what sort of fairy tale you live in, and I certainly wish it wasn't like that in my neighborhood, but it is. Sadly, our real world is full of human predators that prey on the innocent, and unarmed. Weaponry, is merely an equalizer. We can't all run from these things, or we'll never stop running.

I would suggest to all the JCFr's that are posting all this great trivia on handguns to a person who is going to need to kill somebody or be killed themselves to shut the fuck up.

Damn dude... I'm not sure I should respond to that... You obviously are on a different wavelength. See Loucifers and 442w30 posts about different culture...

I think I need to ban myself from the JCF.

If this makes you feel better? Sorry to lose you, I usually enjoy your posts...

I had no friggin idea you guys were so violent or quick to become violent. Usually... musicians are fairly passive and exhibit great skills in communication.

This is actually the response to violence...

Another thing... I refuse to believe that the local police commisioner (or whoever is the highest acting official) would suggest that you bear arms. Imagine the liability involved when you actually kill somebody or get killed yourself and when the media comes they are told that the police suggested that we defend ourselves. Thats crap bro.

I hear that sort of stuff a lot actually. Police are aware they can't be there. And are more understanding of cleaning up dead felons than dead innocent people any day I figure. It's a scary world out here man.

I also feel sorry for the JCF'rs who are so quick to chime in on which type of gun will envoke "confidence" in killing for the newbie concealed weapon holder.

well, umm, thanks for your pity bro... But, I think you're reading a lot of this wrong, or basically misunderstanding us because of your ingrained northeastern culture...

Edited cuz I got a name wrong...

[straycat]

When put in life or death situations being armed is a great thing.More crime is twarted by just showing you are armed not brandishing the weapon phyisicaly just letting the thugs know you mean business.
Family is a hard call but when one side is the "haves" and the other is the "have nots"and they want the "haves" stuff I say protect youself and your stuff.I have been in that situation and it sucks.
By all means get CC training and use the weapon you plan to carry to train with being familier with your weapon in high stress conditions is a must.

[skorb]

well if nothing else this thread demonstrates how very differently people from the country and the city respectively think, and how they see their environment.

very enlightening.

[straycat]

I agree with CM on all counts.
J.G. its the culture of your north eastern location and I can see its ingrained in your attitude about firearms.Just because you carry a gun you are a "yahoo".What is a yahoo?
Its is truly sad like CM stated but that is the world we live in.For the most of us anyway.I'll be damned if I give a thug anything.I always keep my shit wired tight if I'm in a unfamilier area and watch everyone around me.

[Cleveland Metal]

well if nothing else this thread demonstrates how very differently people from the country and the city respectively think, and how they see their environment.

very enlightening.

Well, I'm from the city, and what you might even say is a northeastern city. But, the attitude is definitely different from the MORESO northeastern states I guess. They have always been more liberal, and anti-gun.

Guess growing up in the ghetto and seeing the stuff I've seen and not being able to easily leave, makes you think that way.

I'd rather not "have" to condone what has to be done sometimes, but it is not how it is. I want to live safe, I want my family to live safe. I want good people everywhere to live peacefully and be safe in their lives.

Sad how it has become in many places. But, this is our reality.


Even staunch liberals that oppose gun licensing change their tune when it happens to them... Not a problem opposing my rights, but don't let them get a taste of the real world....

Sigh...

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/phillip_morris/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1179218274175560.xml&coll=2&thispage=1

The Cleveland Plain Dealer is reporting that State Representative Michael DeBose (D-Cleveland) is seeking an Ohio Concealed Handgun License after twice voting against the concealed carry laws that were passed in 2004.



Unfortunately, like many people, it took the survival of a violent attack for Rep. DeBose to understand the importance of the innate right guaranteed by the Ohio Constitution: "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security."

The loud muffler on a car that slowly passed as he was finishing the walk caught his attention, though. When the car stopped directly in front of his house - three houses from where he stood - he knew there was going to be a problem.

"There was a tall one and a short one," DeBose said, sipping on a McDonald's milkshake and recounting the experience Friday.

"The tall one reached in his pocket and pulled out a silver gun. And they both started running towards me."

"At first I just backed up, but then I turned around and started running and screaming."

It is a terrible fact of life that we live in a society that includes dangerous people willing to rob and murder law-abiding citizens. Thankfully, this criminal chose not to fire and take Representative DeBose's life as he was running away.

Hopefully, more and more people throughout our state and in our Statehouse will realize the importance of self-defense and follow in the footsteps of Representative DeBose in supporting Ohio's very successful concealed carry laws so that others may have the chance to not have their life ended by the whims of a crazed, armed robber.



Representative DeBose now realizes that:

"I was wrong," he said Friday.

"I'm going to get a permit and so is my wife.

"I've changed my mind. You need a way to protect yourself and your family.

"I don't want to hurt anyone. But I never again want to be in the position where I'm approached by someone with a gun and I don't have one."

DeBose said he knows that a gun doesn't solve Cleveland's violence problem; it's merely a street equalizer.

"There are too many people who are just evil and mean-spirited. They will hurt you for no reason. If more people were packing guns, it might serve as a deterrent.

[El_Kabong]

Well said Lou....

+1

[atomic charvel guy]

YAO- sorry you're in this situation. I'm not telling anyone to kill anybody, but for pure self defense, since I am no expert by any means, wouldn't an Angel King top all, it never jams, it will fire if wet, muddy, never jams, etc. Just something i read and heard about not long ago. AK47 that is. I hope you and you're family remain safe, i'll be thinking about you.

[Tashtego]

jcable, I'm happy for you that you have been blessed with a life where needing to protect yourself is unimaginable. However, not everyone is a fortunate as you and you have no right to suggest other people leave themselves defenseless.

[Harry Krisna]

Taurus makes a snub nose ,with a 45acp caliber. Bit more knock down power than a 38,and not bad recoil. their titanium version is very light and comfortable to carry. the grips Taurus always have are excellent.

[slayer32390]

If you want situational training you should check airsoft out, the guns are exact replicas and work just the same as their bullet firing counterparts and you can actually pull the trigger on the other person because they are nonlethal. Watch this video its a perfect example: http://www.sigarms.com/DVD/Airsoft.aspx
Hope this situation doesnt end badly for you man.

[AK47]

Ak47 for the home is a must not practical for concealed carry.

Since states have allowed Concealed Carry the crime rate has gone down in those states and trainig must be had to obtain one rarely if ever do you here of an actual licensed CCW holder commiting a crime or acting like a Yahoo and I challenge someone to refernce a news story were this happened I could not find one.

As for the best handgun it is a personal prefrence everyones hand is different, go to the local gunshow or gunstore and try every make and model out, people all differ in how they react to recoil so shoot revolvers and automatics find out which is most comfortable and never buy a gun cause its cheap or a good deal.