Firearms

[FusionFarmer]

for an inexperienced female, I would reccomend a 38 spl. 6 shot revolver, make sure its double action so all you gotta do is pull the trigger. not as complicated as a semi auto, mild recoil , moderate results, bout like a 9

[jgcable]

This is not meant to be funny so...

When the cops tell you that your family needs to arm themselves its time to move. Just pick up.. pack up.. and go.

[YetAnotherOne]

For a variety of reasons moving isn't an option. None of my family is the sort that is inclined to walk away from a fight, particularly if that would give the other side of the family the upper hand which is exactly what would happen. Some calculated risks are worth taking, in all of our eyes this is one that is.

[jgcable]

For a variety of reasons moving isn't an option. None of my family is the sort that is inclined to walk away from a fight, particularly if that would give the other side of the family the upper hand which is exactly what would happen. Some calculated risks are worth taking, in all of our eyes this is one that is.

Nope... step back and read what you just posted. Unless you are a Hatfield or a Mccoy no family arguement is worth arming yourself over.
My advise is to contact the FBI or another law enforcement agency if your local police are telling you to carry firearms. Thats crazy.

What you should do.. as a responsible intelligent person living in the 21st century is EXACTLY to walk away.
The only thing that happens when people carry guns in a case like yours is DEATH. Thats not cool at all.
How about this... take the money you are willing to spend on firearms and hire some personal bodyguards.

Now.. if I am to get sucked into this question on which firearms your family should carry I would suggest some double barrel shotguns loaded with that large buckshot. You can't miss with those guns and you will be sure to kill your other relatives. It will be a really nasty bloody death too.
Another thing you can do is get tazer guns and mace.
What I mean is this.. if you are going to carry weapons you should plan on using them. If you are going to use them than why get something that you might miss with?
This is just a crazy discussion. Call the local law enforcement!!! If the person you spoke to told you to carry concealed weapons ask for their supervisor. If that doesn't work keep moving up the food chain. Exhaust every avenue before you start arming yourself and your family. C'mon bro.

[Stinkbug]

I think you are getting the right advice already. There are some advantages to laser sights (as mentioned previously), but learning to use open sights is a must. If the laser is a crutch and the batteries die or it is too bright out to see it that is a bad situation.

Sig makes a fine side arm. A good quality revolver is also a good choice. It used to be that semi-autos weren't reliable and so revolvers were preferable, but a good weapon like a sig that isn't really a problem. Revolvers can have long trigger pulls and that maybe something to consider as well. Plus, reloding quickly is a bit more tricky. Ultimately, buy something reliable that she can shoot well and carry easily. Get training with it and go to the range frequently to become proficient. If the chances are good you may have a problem then don't take a risk with junk and inadequate training. Also shooting paper targets isn't the same as a human. Can you get access to a FATS training system or anything? I did that a number of years ago and it was beneficial.

[YetAnotherOne]

What you should do.. as a responsible intelligent person living in the 21st century is EXACTLY to walk away.

Sorry John but I, and I believe the rest of my family, disagree. When one allows another who is willing to employ force and coercion to deprive the first of the fruits of their life's work to succeed in their efforts the outcome can only be a more violent and lawless society in the future. That is to say: if everyone ran at the first sign of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged. Thus, as a matter of strongly held principle, I believe that thuggery must be met with force, passive or active, in order to ensure a safe and orderly society for all. That function should, of course, fall to law enforcement but unfortunately they are nearly powerless to help until the thuggery becomes tangible and at that point it may well be too late.


The person who recommended the side arms is the top of the local LE food chain. It’s a bit different out here than in the city in that if we call 911 and there happens to be only one deputy working in the entire county (not uncommon) it could well be 45 minutes or longer before they can respond. I think it’s more likely than not that verbal threats and intimidating behavior are as far as this will go but LE is worried that one of the parties may be a bit mentally unbalanced or at least that they’ve found his behavior “very odd” of late. They see it as prudent for us to be prepared to defend ourselves should the worst occur. I tend to agree.

[xenophobe]

Long story but local law enforcement has recommended that some members of my family obtain concealed carry permits and not go unarmed. Among them is my sister who has very little experience with guns, they're recommending a Sig 9mm for her. I'm thinking a 229 Crimson Trace would be a good choice. Aside from, "Don't do it!" (not an option unfortunately though we all wish it were) anyone have any advice?

A Sig P229 for concealed carry? For a woman?

Ummm... unless she's BIG, then I would highly avoid the P229. It's a bit wide and is a large frame semi-auto that is great for open carry, but not a good choice for carry.

A Walther P99, XD9 or Glock 19 would be more easily concealable...

Crimson Trace laser grips are rather worthless.

[toejam]

All of a sudden, my whole family seems pretty normal.

[skorb]

When one allows another who is willing to employ force and coercion to deprive the first of the fruits of their life's work to succeed in their efforts the outcome can only be a more violent and lawless society in the future. That is to say: if everyone ran at the first sign of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged. Thus, as a matter of strongly held principle, I believe that thuggery must be met with force, passive or active, in order to ensure a safe and orderly society for all. That function should, of course, fall to law enforcement but unfortunately they are nearly powerless to help until the thuggery becomes tangible and at that point it may well be too late.

while I think John has a point in many respects, and I always prefer calmer heads to prevail in any dispute, in general I totally agree with your comments here. well said.

the rule of law is only as good as those who respect and enforce it. if that is us, then so be it.

[skorb]

All of a sudden, my whole family seems pretty normal.

:ROTF:

[jgcable]

Sorry John but I, and I believe the rest of my family, disagree. When one allows another who is willing to employ force and coercion to deprive the first of the fruits of their life's work to succeed in their efforts the outcome can only be a more violent and lawless society in the future. That is to say: if everyone ran at the first sign of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged. Thus, as a matter of strongly held principle, I believe that thuggery must be met with force, passive or active, in order to ensure a safe and orderly society for all. That function should, of course, fall to law enforcement but unfortunately they are nearly powerless to help until the thuggery becomes tangible and at that point it may well be too late.


The person who recommended the side arms is the top of the local LE food chain. It’s a bit different out here than in the city in that if we call 911 and there happens to be only one deputy working in the entire county (not uncommon) it could well be 45 minutes or longer before they can respond. I think it’s more likely than not that verbal threats and intimidating behavior are as far as this will go but LE is worried that one of the parties may be a bit mentally unbalanced or at least that they’ve found his behavior “very odd” of late. They see it as prudent for us to be prepared to defend ourselves should the worst occur. I tend to agree.

That is exactly why you should move. I can't believe how many gun toting yahoo's are JCF members. Its actually sad. Everybody is offering different takes on which type of gun or laser sights you should get your family when instead they should be offering ideas on how to diffuse the situation without killing people. Its nuts.
Whats going to happen is you or one of your family members is going to get killed. That sucks and I can't believe that the JCF is posting like crazy suggestions on which guns you should carry and the finer points of targeting people with different types of sights or trigger pulls or other things.
You mentioned that "if everybody ran at the first sight of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged". Thats crap.
Are you in organized crime or something. If you are a drug dealer then I apologize. You should carry a gun.

Actually this entire paragraph below sounds like you really convinced yourself that killing people is your only option. If it isn't... then you don't need to arm yourself. If your only option is to kill people.. you need to pack your bags and get the fuck out.
"When one allows another who is willing to employ force and coercion to deprive the first of the fruits of their life's work to succeed in their efforts the outcome can only be a more violent and lawless society in the future. That is to say: if everyone ran at the first sign of trouble those inclined to create problems for others in an attempt to profit for themselves would only be encouraged. Thus, as a matter of strongly held principle, I believe that thuggery must be met with force, passive or active, in order to ensure a safe and orderly society for all. That function should, of course, fall to law enforcement but unfortunately they are nearly powerless to help until the thuggery becomes tangible and at that point it may well be too late. "

I would suggest to all the JCFr's that are posting all this great trivia on handguns to a person who is going to need to kill somebody or be killed themselves to shut the fuck up. I think I need to ban myself from the JCF. I had no friggin idea you guys were so violent or quick to become violent. Usually... musicians are fairly passive and exhibit great skills in communication.
Another thing... I refuse to believe that the local police commisioner (or whoever is the highest acting official) would suggest that you bear arms. Imagine the liability involved when you actually kill somebody or get killed yourself and when the media comes they are told that the police suggested that we defend ourselves. Thats crap bro.
I am sorry for your troubles because you have always seemed like a nice intelligent guy. I also feel sorry for the JCF'rs who are so quick to chime in on which type of gun will envoke "confidence" in killing for the newbie concealed weapon holder.

[charveljunkie]

I have carried for years a Sig 40 cal. I started last year having to work in and around Atlanta's least welcome hoods. I bought a Keltec 380 P-3AT and a ankle holster. The Keltec loaded is 1.1lbs (lightest 380 made). The small grip and light trigger pull (5 lbs) makes it ideal for female shooters. Compacity is 6+1 rounds. You can get a laser aimers @ www.smartcarry.com

[charveljunkie]

"I also feel sorry for the JCF'rs who are so quick to chime in on which type of gun will envoke "confidence" in killing for the newbie concealed weapon holder."
This thread is about self defense-no one asked what gun is great for killing people? My boss tell's me just give them the truck, cell phones, wallet and equipment. I told him sorry but in todays world after I give them everything they are gonna shoot my ass anyways. I carry for self defense not to kill anyone. I would hate to have to take another life but if its me or them I'am going to try and take them out period. Atleast it gives me the option to maybe go home to my family.

[jgcable]

"I also feel sorry for the JCF'rs who are so quick to chime in on which type of gun will envoke "confidence" in killing for the newbie concealed weapon holder."
This thread is about self defense-no one asked what gun is great for killing people? My boss tell's me just give them the truck, cell phones, wallet and equipment. I told him sorry but in todays world after I give them everything they are gonna shoot my ass anyways. I carry for self defense not to kill anyone. I would hate to have to take another life but if its me or them I'am going to try and take them out period. Atleast it gives me the option to maybe go home to my family.

He is talking about a heated family issue. Family...
I read in the paper all the time about family issues that get way out of hand and end up with sometimes entire families being slaughtered in a gunfight. I don't think we want that. Do we??
When you are talking about self defense and lazer sighted Sig whatever you call thems... you are 100% talking about killing people. If you weren't we would be suggesting what size bat to walk around with.

Call the cops.. call a family counselor, go to your local Church!!!!!!
I am concerned.. thats all.

[LouSiffer]

Well, JG, I agree with you to a point and then I agree with YAO from that point forward.

I believe alernative methods should be sought in a situation like this. If none is found, why should a group of people have to leave their "homes" because of some other knitwit.

I mean look at the USA. Its founding members left a place that they were opressed and threatened. They found a new place to go without putting up a fight. The fight followed them. Where else could they go? They had to fight back. If they didn't, you or I wouldn't be here.

I place everything on the root cause not the ends or the means. If his sister gets a gun, so be it. I got a feeling if this yahoo does not go near her or pose a threat to her, she will have no need to use it. Why should you or I be deprived just to appease someone else's wishes?

Then again, I personally feel it is better to die on your feet than to be kept living on your knees.

I sat in on a case where a guy beat the living hell out of someone who was breaking into his car. The prosecutor pressed charges against him...not the thief!! The prosecutor looks at him and says " Was it worth being here for beating him just because he broke into your car. Is it worth maybe going to jail for something trivial like this? "

This guy sits back and says the most cool headed thing I ever heard: " You are asking the wrong questions to the wrong guy. You should be asking HIM if it was worth getting beat for such a trivial thing. I bet if he was given a chance to do it all over again knowing the end result, we wouldn't be here right now." The jury aquitted him.

Basically, the jury had enough sense to look at the action that caused a reaction. The root of the problem. You take that action out of the sequence, all the other events that followed never happens.

That being said, gunwise, I know every will think I am insane when I recommend a hammerless revolver. Probably a .38.

Less moving parts, faster fire rate and much more simple in design. Grips are easily changeable to suit her hand size.

Do not let round capacity fool you. 6 rounds are more than enough. If she doesn't hit her target, the nice exploding sound of a revolver will definately scare them away. Besides, even if someone grabs ahold of your hammerless revolver, you can still keep firing it. If they get a hold of your auto and push the slide back just a little bit, it will not fire, providing the gun is mechanically fit, and now they are in cotrol.

I am with Cleveland and am strictly against laser sites. It becomes too easy to rely on and you forget to look at the "what if" field of view. As in: WHAT IF I pull the trigger and he dodges or I miss, where does the bullet go? Who is going to affect? What will it destroy? When you rely on sighting, you will see this rather than focus on a little red dot.

Also, a gun does not make you invulnerable. I feel sorry for the guy who thinks he can hold me at gunpoint and is within a 8-10ft radius. I feel even more sorry for the guy that places a gun to my head. Either one of these guys are in for a bad day. Thats because I have been trained for this and know exactly how fast and how far I can get in that distance. I know the response time for the average person to process the thought of aiming and pulling the trigger. I know most people do not know how to shoot at a moving target ( except for the 13 your old kid that has been playing shooterz in an arcade since he could walk ).-Lou ( live peaceful and only shoot when you absolutely have to )