Windows installation help...

[Spivonious]

I think he found it funny because it's backwards. C++ came way before Java did. C++ took C and added OOP concepts. Java took OOP one step further and is pure OOP. Then MS came along and came up with .NET which includes many languages, chief among them VB.NET, C#, J#, and managed C++. They are essentially Microsoft's version of Java. C# takes C++ syntax and makes it .NET, J# takes Java syntax and makes it .NET, managed C++ is C++ that uses .NET, and VB.NET is a mistake My current job has me doing VB6 stuff, and in our investigations, moving up to VB.NET is essentially moving to a different language. It would have been better to just drop VB and force everyone over to C#.

A's in class are good, but mean next to nothing in the real world I used to prefer Java, but after messing about in .NET I think MS actually did a better job than Sun has done and I predict the .NET framework will be the programming language of choice in the future.

The driver issues with Vista are more related to the fact that MS completely rewrote the video and sound subsystems, mostly for reasons unrelated to DRM and more for improved security and performance. Companies had to make a decision to rewrite their drivers or drop support, and most decided to drop support for older products.

Even with all of the money Microsoft has (remember that Bill is stepping down either later this year or sometime next year, so it's not his pockets anymore ) they couldn't even try to put up a fight against the MPAA/RIAA.

[Spivonious]

Tim, you worked for Microsoft? How'd you like it?

[DrDoug]

Thanks for the OOP history lesson! Now I understand what he was saying. I don't speak programming geek (yet), nor do I pretend to. What you said now explains why some people were telling me that I was wasting my time learning Java. I really enjoyed working with C++ (the MS flavor), and when we got into prototypes and constructing our own headers I though it was funny how it was so much like Java.

BlueJ was fun though, and the World of Zuul program that is the standard fare for Java programming classes was pretty fun to do. I had the added benefit that with my sis working at a game company I was able to get permission to use images from their game in my interface. No big deal, but the teach saw it and squeezed me for a contact at the company (which I was glad to give). Plus, the interface looked cool with their images in it.

You are right, A's are not indicitave of performance in the real world. Nor do I say that they are. But they sure are good while you are in school, right?

While learning OOP, I have run into many coders who I greatly respect for their knowledge. Many times they imparted a bit of that knowledge to me, but the fact that they made me work for it was great! I always stated that I was working on a class project, and say that I was not looking for the answer to my project. I would take the time to detail the specific problem I was having and they would drop hints about where to look. No sense even taking the classes if I am going to have everyone else give me the answers. I need to understand the whys and whats of what I was doing, and that others would take so much time out (and patience!) to help was pretty cool.

Oh well, back to moving. I have been hopping on the laptop between runs to drop off stuff (cool down time!) and I have a lot more to do! I am sure we have spoken enough geek to bore everyone else to death here...lol

[hippietim]

Tim, you worked for Microsoft? How'd you like it?

I still work there. It's been a great job. I currently work on Visual Studio.

Here's my blog on MSDN that I almost never post on
http://blogs.msdn.com/hippietim/about.aspx

[hippietim]

In terms of C++ - MS C++ really isn't anything different than the standard Stroustrup stuff. There were a few keywords added a really long time ago for calling conventions that worked better for OS/2, Windows, and Mac development. When we released the .NET framework, there were extensions added to C++ to support writing Managed C++ and interoperating with VB.Net and C#. But those are just extensions - not requirements. You can easily use just standard C++ with our compiler.

In terms of language variants: C, C++, Java, C# all share the same basic constructs and syntax. They've all learned from the mistakes of the previous language and at this point I think C# is the nicest one. I've written a lot of C# code in the last 3 years - the new features in the upcoming 2008 VisualStudio are really sweet too.

[horns666]

Timmy You get a F-, because there is no such thing as a C++..and I know this.

[DrDoug]

Another run out of the way! I can't wait to get this move over. This weekend we are moving the big stuff, and it will be downhill after that. I hope this is our last move until we get our property. I am waiting for the sub-prime market stuff to settle down as the prices are dropping all over here now.

Thanks for the info Tim! Nothing like getting it from the horses mouth, so to say. The more I have delved into coding, the more respect I have for the people who do it. I don't know why, but debugging something I am working on is fun to do. When I got into exception handling, I really had a blast.

I have learned that with some of the debugging messages in Visual Studio 2005, many times the problem is not the line that is noted in debug, but the line above it. I found that to be interesting as I would think that debug would catch the error itself.

Well, if I run into more problems with my coding classes, I have another resource...

I first got into OOP with Python in 2003 as the game server/client I run use it. Luckily there were other game server operators who had lots of experience with it, and I joined their programming group. I finally learned and I eventually led a complete rewrite of the control code for the administrative functions we added to the client end of the game. We modded the chat functions in the game to allow game object/avatar manipulations (adding over 250 commands to the code), but it was just hodgepodged together. The list of chat commands grew pretty clunky and the response time was being affected. So I took the time to rewrite sections to streamilne them, then I nested the calls under common groupings so there were far fewer calls to search before the one needed was located. It put the performance back up again, and I even added a few game object functions together that combined two or more operations in one call. Plus I wrote an online help system for the code so people who were not involved in the coding project would have a thorough reference to use in learning the new functions. This got me hooked on OOP and when I returned to college I decided to learn more about it in a formal setting. I am glad I did!

Thanks too for the additional info on the interrelations of the OOP languages. I will have to check out C# too, thanks for the bit of info on what is coming up.

In your opinion, what would be the best focus for the future of OOP? There is so much out there, and I would like to narrow down to what the future may hold in programming. the shotcgun approach to learning is not exactly the best to get through school without going bankrupt...lol!

Again, thanks!

[followthereaper]

Well, I borrowed my friend's XP disc and formatted. I even took it out during one of the reboots, so now there's just about nothing else installed except for OS. Now for another question... Do you guys think I'd be better off installing it on all my other computers? It's been a pain in the ass because most of the programs I use aren't compatible yet.

[Bert]

Hey Tim perhaps you can enlighten us on the DRM fiasco in Vista if DrDoug is so off-base with his conjecture. It sure seems like MS has much more leverage than Apple, yet Vista is way more encumbered with DRM nonsense than OSX. Not trying to be difficult, I'd really like to know why that is.

Me, I'm sticking with XP for now.

[OnlineStageGear]

.

Thanks for the info Tim! Nothing like getting it from the horses mouth

Haha Tim, he said u have a horse mouth.

Matt

[shobet]

The ERROR_SUCCESS thing in the Win32 API always makes me laugh.

[hippietim]

Hey Tim perhaps you can enlighten us on the DRM fiasco in Vista if DrDoug is so off-base with his conjecture. It sure seems like MS has much more leverage than Apple, yet Vista is way more encumbered with DRM nonsense than OSX. Not trying to be difficult, I'd really like to know why that is.

Me, I'm sticking with XP for now.

Leverage with who?

[hippietim]

The ERROR_SUCCESS thing in the Win32 API always makes me laugh.

As a standalone identifier it is indeed funny. But when it's in-place with all the actual ERROR_* codes then it is pretty sensible. It is very common practice to use a common prefix on enumerations (which these basically are).

[hippietim]

Timmy You get a F-, because there is no such thing as a C++..and I know this.

Bill, just because you never got as high as a C++ on your report card doesn't mean there's no such thing

[shobet]

So has Balmer ever thrown any furniture at you?