Pit Bulls

[fett]

Read the whole thread. I started it and it needs to start from Post 1. This is what makes you guys so great. If I ruffled feathers, so much the better. I stick to my guns and so will everyone else.

[Cygnus X1]

I have a german shephard that would attack...

You are being a clueless dumbass Fett.

Pitbulls have been bred for dog aggression, they have been fought for the last century.

HOWEVER, a pitbull that was a manbiter was executed immediately. They had to be handled and could not be some wild insane animal. That line breeding amazingly turned the breed into one of the ultimate human companion dogs.

I've raised pits for 27 years, around my son as an infant, around many other children. They are an awesome breed. If I had to choose a dog to spend the rest of my life with, it would be a pitbull.

Interdog aggression, and human aggression are absolutely two totally different things. A properly bred and raised is not a threat to a human.

My pitts, when playing rough as can, if they feel my skin in their teeth will shut down playing immediately and look like they did something horrible.

Most of the pits that we see being issues are pits that are raised by people that want them as a status symbol. Then find out they really dont want to hurt people and are very friendly. They then abuse them to the poiont they are nuts. And then those same scumbags and their messed up dogs are living irresponsibly around lots of little ghetto kids, one day, the insane pittie eventually grabs one and we read about it.

I believe so strongly about this that I even run a website that promotes positive pitbull ownership, and attemts to educate people like you Fett. Sadly, I have a feeling it falls on deaf ears when I listen to your uneducated ramblings.

Shame its poeple like you that will actually help the ghetto scum erase this breed.

Thanx...

Several valid points that I'd like to expand.
In a strange twist of events at work, I was assigned to give a speech about body language for Toastmasters.
I decided that one of the best forms of nonverbal communication involved animals, who obviously can't speak our language. So for two solid weeks, I did something that I have done for a long time, but with a purpose...watch and interpret how our dog communicates.
She's not a pit, but a dog that when I was a child, was considered dangerous, a german shephard. My wife was attacked by one years ago, and my sister when she was young. I have known some pits, also, never owned one.

People do not understand the mix of breeding, instinct, lack of mastery, the very many aspects that amount to an "unexpected" dog attacks. I could easily fool myself into thinking that our mixed shep wouldn't hurt anyone, but first and foremost, she a german shepherd. Leave her alone, she is "at work"...she will choose a strategic spot, and just observe. She
smells or hears something, ears are up. She seldom will bark. She may give a low whistle in her throat. If it's a confirmed threat, she will assume a dominant posture, but is still awaiting command. That's the critical point.
We (actually my wife is the "master", a dog only has one true master)
then tell her it's ok, shut up, no threat, or distract.
One thing I noticed, sometimes sweet wife will sleep somewhere else due to my snoring. Where's the dog? Strategically lying down, ears up, right in the center of the location of the family in the house. Everyone in the bedrooms? dogs in the hall. Wife goes to the other end of the house? dog is halfway there. Daytime nap? Resting at the front door.
Have we trained her to be a guard dog? Absolutely not. She's a shep, that's what she does. I make sure that my wife always has Duchess
in line. When playing (she's high maintanance about this), if she even
starts to show her teeth, or the wrong kind of growl, she's done. If the session ends positively, like fetch and drop, she's well rewarded. It's a lifelong commitment, and if we didn't have the time to keep up with her, we wouldn't have a dog. I know if we just left her to herself, eventually she would do a deer-like jump over the fence and go after someone, out of lack of discipline and boredom.

Bottom line, if you want something to pet and ignore, get a cat. They will be happy to ignore you as well, until you fit their needs.


Dogs, in the end, are pack animals, and must have their job and place in the pack. The pit, like the shep or doberman, is bred in a certain way. Given
the proper outlet and attention, they are excellent dogs. But some of the dog is the breeding, and people do not always know how to read them, and far too many do not have the time to give a dog the attention it needs to be a pet. Dog love to work, and usually will default to the genetic instincts.

[Cleveland Metal]

Cleveland John:

So, what you are saying is that there now exists two "kinds" of pitbull breeds? One that is nice, and one that is bred (sp?) to be aggressive (due to some idiots wanting them as weapons or fighters) ?

Not quite, but in a way. And there are sort of several answers here.

Dogs are fine tuned for purpose by linebreeding back into the strain till certain desirable traits are pronounced. REAL dog breeder are putting out fine animals (of all breeds) doing just this. The pitbull strain that was developed is renowned world over from the early days is a great animal.

Although well known and bred to be dog aggressive, this is a totally different trait from the human aggression that we are seeing. Dog aggression to them is a trait just like bird dogs get birds, Beagles get rabbits etc..

As a whole, they are also tenacious and focused, regardless of conditions. This is also a lot of the problem. Once some idiots ghets them focused on something, they are pretty relentless.

Then, we get backyard opportinistic breeders that breed back into whatever piece of crap pitty that they or their freinds have and most often end up accenuating very bad traits. Fear biting, human aggressiveness, just plain nuts even. This creates a really messed up dog and these guys are too stuopid to kill them like a real breeder probably would.

So that is one difference in the "bad" dogs we read about.

Of course, even with good breeders, there are dogs that pop up hardwired wrong and are messed up from the get go (just like crazy humans).

HOWEVER, someone can STILL take a perfectly well bred and stable dog, and make it absolutely insane to the point where its a dangerous animal.

I've seen guys with nice pitties acting all macho, and the dogs wags its tail at someone and they beat it. Some feed them gunpowder to make them mean. It tears up their GI tract and makes them in pain al the time. This getting a mean dog. Seriously. Anyways, after a while, the dog will associate someone freindly or just other people in general walking by with getting a beating and wants that person gone, and they act aggressively to the person.

That same messed up dog, gets tied up in a yard, day in and day out, with little ghetto rats teasing it to no end (because no one ever taught THEM better) and one day the whacked out dog gets loose and finally gets to attack one of the litte kids "it sees" as their tormentor.

This Pitbull problem is merely a product of a deranged society. I'd say we're lucky they picked a dog that was almost always bred for human companionship rather than a dog that was already bred and meant to be a manstopper, like say Presa Canario, or Mastives... We'd have serious killer dog issues then... It will eventually happen.

This is a very simplified response to your question, but gives some food for thought.

[atomic charvel guy]

The headache "Piddy Cent" and redneck breeders and raising for profit has made this dog unwanted by the "moral majority' so to speak, and all you hear or read is bad press. Pretty much applies to anything these days on the nes, be it a dog, a country, an employee, etc. Only the bad is reported. the last time i twisted a fatty and watched the regular news, I almost wanted to hang myself it was so depressing. Only sports, music, and old shows like the honeymooners ,odd couple, and Warner bros. cartoons are allowed.

[FusionFarmer]

What pisses me off more than anything else about the pitbull situation is the scum who dump their unwanted pitbulls out in the country for us to deal with,

[fett]

The dog has been bred from Day 1 to be an attack animal. Tommy, of all people, you should read where I said that all racehorses came from the same stud.

[Cleveland Metal]

Yeah, most end up like this...


The following facts are verbatim from the Humane Society of the United States website:

For every human born, 7 puppies and kittens are born. (1)

One female cat and her offspring can produce 420,000 cats in 7 years. (1)

One female dog and her offspring can produce 67,000 dogs in 6 years. (2)

An estimated 6 to 8 million dogs and cats are euthanized in animal shelters each year in the United States. Millions more are abandoned, only to suffer from disease, starvation or injury before dying.

In a study of relinquishment of dogs and cats in 12 U.S. animal shelters, 30% of the surrendered animals were purebred. (3)

The same study indicated that 55% of the surrendered dogs and 47% of the surrendered cats were not spayed or neutered. (3)

Of all dogs reported in severe attacks on people in Texas during 1998 (where the reproductive status of the animal was known), unsterilized male dogs were 2.6 times more likely to attack than female dogs or neutered male dogs. (4)

It costs U.S. taxpayers an estimated $2 billion each year to impound, shelter euthanize and dispose of homeless animals. (5)

Approximately 55% of dogs and puppies entering U.S. animal shelters are killed, based on reports from 1,038 U.S. animal shelters. (6)

Approximately 71% of cats and kittens entering U.S. animal shelters are killed based on the same report.]



Sad....

[Cleveland Metal]

The dog has been bred from Day 1 to be an attack animal. Tommy, of all people, you should read where I said that all racehorses came from the same stud.

If YOU would read a bit, you'd have seen that animal aggression and human aggression are two totally different things...

Bred in Animal aggression is bird dogs chasing birds, beagles hunting rabbits, coon dogs hunting racoons etc ect... Even in cats that kill other animals, it's a natural thing.

Human aggression is a totally different thing that we are dealing with. And that IS NOT a natural trait of the pitbull breed.

[atomic charvel guy]

The dog has been bred from Day 1 to be an attack animal. Tommy, of all people, you should read where I said that all racehorses came from the same stud.

I don't get it? i just was spouting my disdain for the regular news, only the bad is reported. I'm confused fettster, wha happa?

[Cleveland Metal]

Fett is the confused one here, hehe..

[Cygnus X1]

The media due to the "wrong" owners have stereotyped them as vicous and unpredicable. Owners that respect, love and understand this breed know the value of such companions..in the proper enviorment, they way it should be.

This is why Limbaugh calls them "Drive By Media"...a.k. "SUV veers and kills toddler",as if it was the SUV that caused the accident.
that is also a part of the problem.

A Katie Couric with a pasted "concerned" look pleads "Dear god, why" and ignorant veiwers rant "Yeah, it's those stupid dogs! Ban Them!!"

Stupid breeding of an otherwise fine animal, and clueless owners.

Dogs are truly our companions, but they are dogs in the end. They reflect the owner.

[fett]

Tommy. Read the first post and go from there. Racehorses were bred to run from Day 1. Or 2. But it was the "One" stud that made the thoroughbred (SP)It's the same way with the "Pit Bull" as we know it today.

[atomic charvel guy]

i'm still lost fettster, get me Limbaugh on the line, I need some of his hillbilly heroin, i mean oxycontinuous-lol

[fett]

Is a Clydesdale a racehorse? No. It was bred for pulling Bud Wagons. A dog for thousands of years has been fine tuned for a unigue purpose. Throw a dog in a livingroom or the backyard and then say "Oh, fuck!!! I didn't know he or she could do that." Good or bad

[FusionFarmer]

If YOU would read a bit, you'd have seen that animal aggression and human aggression are two totally different things...

.

So its okay to have an animal who only wants to kill other animals, I know you are strong proponent of these animals and but its not okay to have animal agressive dogs running around, the normal reaction someone has when a loose pitbull is mauling their family pet is try to save their animal, then the fight frenzied dog is going to turn on the person. many of your points supporting pit bulls can also be seen as points to the contrary, like I said earlier one of my friends has a pit who is the sweetest dog in the world to people, kids, and shes always extremely affectionate to me anytime I'm there, but I really do feel that we would be better off as a whole without them.