horns, what is your take on this story?

[fr0sty]

Story if found on the net today. This isn't me.

http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/01/arrested-at-circuit-city/

and outcome

http://www.michaelrighi.com/2007/09/20/success/

[horns666]

Mike, for whatever reason..either you wanted to one-up or to embarass the inept store personel or have fun with them. Mike, you completely stepped on your own dick..you are reqired by law to have on your person a State ID, ..drivers license being the most common. You are required by to surrender/display that ID whenever a law enforcement requests it. Yes, you can go to jail at the officer's discretion failure or refuse to display your State ID while being interviewed!!!

You fucked up you bro, I have NO clue what possesed you to open your car door and surrender your freedom's to a inept store civilains! You empowered that store manager with your own ignorance of the law..unfortunately..you should have just kept the car door cosed, had no conversation whatsoever with him, and leave..you want to challenge him..well, you did..since you KNOW you did NOT steal anything.

But

All this changed the moment a police officer is called to the scene..yes, even by you. Once the officer asked to see your license..shit ran downhill from there. You must prove at any given time your identity. You're not even permitted to have two different state drivers license..that is also an arrestible offense..

The manager actually broke a higher law with "unlawful restraint"..but you opened that door..literally.

Fuggit, don't even think of a civil case because you don't have a leg to stand on. These assholes have a policy to "check" your receipt, they can ask..but that's it. They can NOT use force or stop you from leaving unless they actually observed you break a crime..not to check if you did. If you're innocent..let them call the cops, and keep walkin'.

Pay your fine, because that's all this is..and take this as a lesson.

Too bad bro..that sucks...sigh

Your resst had nothing to do with those asshole , stealing or that store..forget that. Your arrest was in c/w refuse/failure to display State ID..

Police must ALL IDs no matter if you are a victim, suspect or neither, to confirm your identity and to run a warrant check if need be.

Again, sorry man..you didn't see that comin'..

Bill Z

[horns666]

Cool..I didn't read the "outcome"..all was dropped!!!

If that the case..you could possibly file a civil action against Brookpark. Talk to a lawyer..maybe.

Just /carry and show ID to a cop if they ever ask. It just confirms who you are. That could save you too..what if you happen to look like a known suspect in a crime that just took place near by..and you match the description..your ID can save you.

[Joe_Steeler]

That sucks.

[mhalsey]

Hang on, Bill. I thought he verified that the law states he DOESN'T have to show ID when not operating a vehicle? Somethin' ain't right. Not everyone has any form of ID, much less a STATE ID. What the hell is a friggin state id anyway? I know that officers can't be required to know every letter of the law but they better know the basics before abusing their authority like some out-of-control Barney Fife.

[jwoods986]

"In Ohio this right is specifically protected by Ohio Revised Code 2921.29 which states that a person may not be arrested for refusing to provide a law enforcement officer with anything other than a verbal representation of their name, address and date of birth."

Apparently, you DON'T have to show a license, unless of course, you're operating a motor vehicle. That's what I thought, this isn't Communist Russia - "show me your papers".

I'll throw my $.02 of personal experience in here. I was at a party years ago and the cops showed up because of noise. I was the one at the door and they asked me to step outside. I've heard stories of being asked to step outside, then when you do, they arrest you for drunk in public. So I refused. Then they asked for my license and I refused. I was drunk so my refusal was "I ain't showing you shit!". So they grabbed me, cuffed me, and put me in the back of the car, don't worry he got an ear-full. So I get taken to the magistrate, then the cop and the magistrate are flipping through a book, like they're LOOKING for something to charge me with, and you know what they come up with? "Curse and Abuse" was my charge. What a joke! So one of my friends comes to pick me up and I leave that night, no bail, no jail, nothing. I go to court later and it was a $50 fine. This article reminded me of the joke charges cops come up with when they've got nothing, like "Obstructing Official Business" in this Ohio case.

[shreddermon]

Cripes, dude, just show them the fuckin' receipt and go. If that policy really bothers you that much, then don't shop at that store in the first place. You have the freedom to spend your money elsewhere.

[ozzuk1]

That's pretty crappy, theres not a lot legally the stores can do once you have walked through the door thats in the uk though presuammbly if tis a big place with a big parking lot it'd extend to the premisis, still the guy had no right to do anything other than ask to look through your bags...

Still Even if it's the law to only state your name, you should ahve showed him a picture I.d. now i take personal insult to the show your drivers lciense, hopefully nothign as extreme as that show your DL or get busted will ever occur here, because not everyone drives...

Still the manager and the lackey and the officer we're in the wrong both logically and legally well for Ohio...

Baffles me why some police officers find it necesarry to make more paperwork and hassle for themselves and others...

Allthough generally it's a good idea to follow officers requests weather they are entitled to I doubt there would have been much trouble had you provided your drivers license...

It doesent always pay to be righteous..

Good luck with the Hearing...

[fr0sty]

Oh, and this isn't me. I just wanted to get billz opinion on this somewhat interesting event.

[Wayniac]

I'm not Bill, but think I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway -
I agree that the CC guys were way out of line after he left the store (restraint, etc) but c'mon - privacy? He used a credit card (at least for the 2nd purchase). If he was REALLY worried about invasion of privacy, that would have been a cash deal. And what harm is it to show the reciept - it's a slight inconvenience, but hardly qualifies as trampling on your US citizen rights.
Way to waste the courts time and blow $7500++. How many guitars or amps could have been bought with that $$?

[fr0sty]

Hey everyone. I am not the person in the story. I just read it today and was interested in it. I though bill would have a unique and experienced opinion on it. He is the only weed smoking retired police office I "virtually" know

I'm not Bill, but think I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway -
I agree that the CC guys were way out of line after he left the store (restraint, etc) but c'mon - privacy? He used a credit card (at least for the 2nd purchase). If he was REALLY worried about invasion of privacy, that would have been a cash deal. And what harm is it to show the reciept - it's a slight inconvenience, but hardly qualifies as trampling on your US citizen rights.
Way to waste the courts time and blow $7500++. How many guitars or amps could have been bought with that $$?

[RacerX]

Agree with Shreddermon & Wayniac. This righi dude is quite the dick and disobeying a cop was plenty stupid to boot. Mr. "I know my rights", ha! If I was there I would've laughed my ass off!

Oh, and asking for donations? Dick.
Then donating the proceeds to the ACLU? Total dick!

[horns666]

Oh, and this isn't me. I just wanted to get billz opinion on this somewhat interesting event.

...cool this wasn't you..I thought it was..

Well, at the time I served on basic patrol. the ORC stated that anyone 18 and over is required to have a State ID, or DL..State of Ohio for me..

I worked the hood..so alot of people had welfare cards, and a State ID is required anywhoo. a State ID were called "The 4th District Drivers License" where I worked..

I arrested countless people for not having their ID. They usually don't forget their social security number too, or use an alias number, name and DOB. I was always told by MY bosses starting from the Mayor's office to arrest anyone who refused info, or no proper ID. We would hold them at the district until a friend or family would arrive with their ID..once they were cleared for warrants. Hey, as long as my ass was covered ..fuggums.

Normally we just write refused" on the booking card..and they sat in the tank "held for proper ID"..fuggums..

This is true..and extremely commonplace due playing that game on a daily basis..fuggums.

Whether I followed the letter of the law wasn't my concern..as long as my boss gave the go ahead..which I always wrote per boss #--- on reports, booking card, and ect, signed by that boss...just to cover my ass..

Yeah, I guess it was very much like "show me your papers"..Russia..even tho I never been there.

[horns666]

Frosty is NOT the perp..I repeat Broseppi Frosty is NOT the perp!!!

I had something I used everday called "vicarious liability". As long as my sector supervisor gave me an order. I follwed that order and documented it in my resport to the T..fuggums.

Leave it on them..They took that promotion, and know how to articulate their actions..

see what I'm sayin'..

[fr0sty]

T. Fuggums sounds like a good alias. Maybe Tyrone Fuggums, Esquire