WTF is wrong the US

[danastas]

So again, has he been charged with treason? What exactly are the charges and the time he's facing? First you said mail fraud is a misdemeanor, then you said it's not a crime - which is it? I've always thought that mail fraud was a Federal offense and a felony.

And why would it be mail FRAUD to send his friends wine? Did he promise Dom Perignon and send Ripple? I don 't get it.

Were you in the room when he talked to the feds, or are you just going by what he told you? Artists can be free with their descriptions, free to the point of misrepresenting what's actually happening to plead their cause.

What you're saying - and refusing to say - isn't adding up.

It's illegal to mail wine period. If you're not a distributor.

And this offense is not punishable by jail, normally.

If you want to know the legalese, federal mail fraud falls under a breach of contract law. In the federal system, it isn't a felony. It's the equivalent of breaking a contract. With the Patriot Act, however. There's a new wrinkle in the interpretation of laws. Let's say you're a terrorist that is planning to, but has not yet mailed his potentially explosive substances. The Patriot Act has a provision called "theory of felony" that allows them to prosecute before the crime is committed. Why? Because many of these substances aren't restricted, nor are they illegal. Similar to the wine. Only the mailing of them "over state lines" is illegal. In this case, the item was mailed from New York to Penn. The "over state lines" part is crucial because otherwise the state has juridiction, and this guy was already cleared by the state. If the Fed. prosecutor can convince the jury that a breach of contract law can amount to a theory of a felony, then he will have achieved his goal.

It gets even more technical than this, and I can break it down for you. You said I'm not giving enough information earlier, but I didn't purposely because the whole case relies on, as far as I'm concerned, technicalities that are simply put into use because they don't like this guy's politics.

[danastas]

Dont worry Hillary will get rid of the Patriot act. Also I have a suggestion for govt healthcare. If a taxpayer has to take a drug test to get the job to make the money to be taxed then shouldnt a receiver of the tax money have to take a drug test to get it? I think they should.

Good then I'll vote for her. I wasn't planning on it until you wrote that.

[horns666]

Danastas..I'm a facist in YOUR view. If being a "facist" is wrong, I don't want to be right..because it saved many lives including my own!

I was saying that our "freedom" is at the discretion of law enforcement, but you said I was "wrong" . We can hold someone on gut feeling if something doesn't "feel right" until further invest. It's based on how we articulate of our actions. The credibility of the officer also plays a role. That is the first we learn as officers which we call CYA. It was always like this that way before 911. So not that much has changed.


Suspicios behavior is Probably Cause ..a red flag to further invest and arrest. We check all criminal record, warrants and their behavior at time of arrest. If anything we slap with a disorderly condut. Which is a common CYA tactic, in case they harm someone if we let them go immediately. That's that 6th sense we have, police intuition, good 'ol fasion police work..like you hear on TV and ect. All good facist have it.

That's what I meant by we didn't lose much "freedom" before and after 911. All that did was trigger and develope an aggressive proactive system which wasn't in place before. The "excuse" to impose on our liberties I guess. If we had this system in place the chances of the magnitude of 911 would prolly been unlikely if any. We would have cocked blocked their attempt(s)..as we've done several times since. I worked at the airport and airport securit was ver lazy and lax. I could see how that happened, and suprised it took that long. Cops don't write department procedures we follow them and do the best we can within' that scope. Police are only called if a checker discovered a weaopn or something suspicious at the checkpoints. There was only 5-6 of us to cover that entire airport.

I'm an example, if this system was in place at that time, I would still be working. Instead on March 29th 2001 I met with violent, highly intoxicated, big corrections officer on a plane with over 200 on board who were frozen fear. They watched him brutally beat three female flight crew and co-pilot trying to assist but overpowered. He returned to the cockpit when this male was kicking the door while being diverted to Cleveland. Where I met him and the fight was on. I beat, and arrested this male while a broken neck. If this was after 911 he would have been shot by a Sky Marshall, which I wished were the case..but he's in jail for a ver long time. One woman had to get her jaw wired and never been the same since. I been in pain since that incident and why I pay $735 a month for my wife, kid and myself. My pension is just shy of 40K a year. I would be making double that if I was actively working because we are very short-handed with many hours availuable.

I'm not angry with you, just wanted to shine some much needed light on your perception. You're sheltered and naive which is blatant in your thinking. Be thankful, I find people like you much more easier going, relaxed and less cynical than people like myself...you're very lucky.

I know I just wasted time peeing on a wet rope..because you have it all figured out...good for you man!!

Like your friend who broke the law..you have a little prob with authority in general. So the bias that you mention is not just ethnic is nature..I've grown used to that. It's glaring red in your words, and minset which I become very in tune with. I heard similar and MUCH worse for years on end. I didn't arrest your buddy, I never arrested anyone for something like that, we didn't handle any of that stuff...but I'm retired remember?

Much love back Rich!!!

OK..I'm going to play my guitar now..what a concept.

[lerxstcat]

C'mon, You get 'em Rich..knock his block off!!

Hit him in the beanbag with the facts. That won't matter, because he knows he wrong but keeps coming back!!

He likes pain and the smell of his own flatulence.

Have I told you lately that I love you, Bill?

I can't blame the guy for feeling bad for his friend, but the story is thin. He keeps saying the dude's being charged with treason but when I ask directly he won't give a direct answer. ?????

[lerxstcat]

OMG!! So many tangents here. My whole point of this thread was to say we had a known enemy on our soil and we let him go because of some stupid diplomatic garbage. He should be with Saddam now doing his 72 virgins.(not sure if theyre male or fem virgins) .. This guy kidnapped alot of americans in the 70s and now he is for peace? Yall do know that the quoran says a muslim can lie to an infedel and its ok right? This guy is slicker than Bill Clinton with his speeches. He is trouble and if someone doesnt stop him Isreal will and the doo doo will hit the fan and itll be too late. Convert or Die is there theology and you can not negotiate with that. Its there deepest beliefs and the core of the issue here. Its an idealogy we are fighting not a nation.

They should just seperate Iraq into 3 nations and let them kill each other in a cival war.

I understand the emotion you have about Ineedajihad. But he isn't worth throwing the whole idea of diplomatic immunity aside. Kill him here and no American's life traveling abroad will be worth a plug nickel. Our diplomats would be assassinated worldwide, and it'd be open season on American tourists too.

MyMood Ineedajihad is not worth that. Now a cruise missile into the Presidential Palace in Tehran, that might be an idea... kill him on his own turf. Then again the ayatollahs will just trot out another stooge....

[lerxstcat]

The Patriot Act is a lot more encompassing than treason obviously, but I figure that's the way they look at it. Anyone who doesn't toe their political line is a traitor. Else, why throw your political opposition in jail? Does that make sense to you. They are pushing his case under the Patriot Act because sending wine through the mail is not a criminal offense. You can get fined for it. Under the Patriot Act they are trying to reclassify it and send him to jail. So, when they threatened him with, "We can send you to jail for anything we want," the fascists meant it.

When I talked to people who know him or are colleagues of his they've clammed up. A lot of people have been "contacted" about their relations with him.

So again, has he been charged with treason? What exactly are the charges and the time he's facing? First you said mail fraud is a misdemeanor, then you said it's not a crime - which is it? I've always thought that mail fraud was a Federal offense and a felony.

And why would it be mail FRAUD to send his friends wine? Did he promise Dom Perignon and send Ripple? I don 't get it.

Were you in the room when he talked to the feds, or are you just going by what he told you? Artists can be free with their descriptions, free to the point of misrepresenting what's actually happening to plead their cause.

What you're saying - and refusing to say - isn't adding up.

[yard dawg]

The Patriot Act is a lot more encompassing than treason obviously, but I figure that's the way they look at it. Anyone who doesn't toe their political line is a traitor. Else, why throw your political opposition in jail? Does that make sense to you. They are pushing his case under the Patriot Act because sending wine through the mail is not a criminal offense. You can get fined for it. Under the Patriot Act they are trying to reclassify it and send him to jail. So, when they threatened him with, "We can send you to jail for anything we want," the fascists meant it.

When I talked to people who know him or are colleagues of his they've clammed up. A lot of people have been "contacted" about their relations with him.

Dont worry Hillary will get rid of the Patriot act. Also I have a suggestion for govt healthcare. If a taxpayer has to take a drug test to get the job to make the money to be taxed then shouldnt a receiver of the tax money have to take a drug test to get it? I think they should.

[horns666]

C'mon, You get 'em Rich..knock his block off!!

Hit him in the beanbag with the facts. That won't matter, because he knows he wrong but keeps coming back!!

He likes pain and the smell of his own flatulence.

[danastas]

Al Capone was finally busted for tax evasion. Should they have just let him go on with his reign of terror?

Granted your friend isn't Al Capone. Then again, he shouldn't have mailed a bottle of wine if it's illegal. Are they charging him with treason or is that statement histrionics on your part?

The Patriot Act is a lot more encompassing than treason obviously, but I figure that's the way they look at it. Anyone who doesn't toe their political line is a traitor. Else, why throw your political opposition in jail? Does that make sense to you. They are pushing his case under the Patriot Act because sending wine through the mail is not a criminal offense. You can get fined for it. Under the Patriot Act they are trying to reclassify it and send him to jail. So, when they threatened him with, "We can send you to jail for anything we want," the fascists meant it.

When I talked to people who know him or are colleagues of his they've clammed up. A lot of people have been "contacted" about their relations with him.

[danastas]

But he was trading his services for this payment. That's not fair to then call him out like that. Totally different than generations of welfare recipients. Hel not even the same thing!

I think you should take that back as that is totally spinning the deal.

Just as an FYI, I wasn't responding to the ingrateful deadbeats part of his post.

I was responding to the swipe at Sweden for their national health care.

Now I see what started all this confusion. It didn't occur to me that my post could be read as an attack on his point about deadbeats.

Sorry, Bill, I really was just responding to the health care part.

[danastas]

Sure, When I was basically called a leech getting fat off the governement, in so many words . That was my cue to bail..

I think it was said in the heat of the moment..it happends.

I reserve absolutely NO hard feelings whatsover. I'm proud of what I did, who I am and certainly know better.

I'm just watchin' the show now..

Never called you that. Only someone that thinks people getting health care and pay from the gov't would be offended by that. I just started my gov't job this year. I have no compunction whatsoever or questions about my health care or the fact that I'm paid by tax dollars. I was only questioning that idea that anyone who gets gov't health care is a leech.

Sorry you took it as an insult. I didn't mean it that way. As a matter of fact, why would I use it as an insult when I don't think it's a bad thing at all? That makes no sense. I think everyone should have the health care that you and I have.

[OnlineStageGear]

No way dude. We are still the greatest Nation in the world. God Bless America. If the world frowns apon us, then FUCK THEM.

[toejam]

OMG!! So many tangents here. My whole point of this thread was...

Well, that's what happens when you bring subjects like this up here, as has been proven in the past. If you'd read the rules, you'd know that "Political, racial and religious threads are frowned upon".

[yard dawg]

OMG!! So many tangents here. My whole point of this thread was to say we had a known enemy on our soil and we let him go because of some stupid diplomatic garbage. He should be with Saddam now doing his 72 virgins.(not sure if theyre male or fem virgins) .. This guy kidnapped alot of americans in the 70s and now he is for peace? Yall do know that the quoran says a muslim can lie to an infedel and its ok right? This guy is slicker than Bill Clinton with his speeches. He is trouble and if someone doesnt stop him Isreal will and the doo doo will hit the fan and itll be too late. Convert or Die is there theology and you can not negotiate with that. Its there deepest beliefs and the core of the issue here. Its an idealogy we are fighting not a nation.

They should just seperate Iraq into 3 nations and let them kill each other in a cival war.

[Strat God]

If Rich is the anti-ESP guy, then I enjoy watching him piss in the corn flakes.