WTF is wrong the US

[Bengal]

I don't quite understand the notion that they hate us for our freedom...

And I also believe the Government cannot protect us against something like this, so why take away our liberties trying?

[danastas]

Yo Danastas,
I was replying to 442w30 not you.

Sorry if I screwed up Tommy. Actually, I don't even know what I've written anymore. I can't find the post you're referring to. Maybe I should just shut up instead of wasting my time at work on the boss's dime.

[danastas]

Tommy is a good example of that self-preseving minset.

He adjusted things to maintain his lifestyle and happiness without relying on others.

No matter if he made boo-koo bucks or just a few..he's still kickin' ass, and content..which is obvious!!

I worked as a cop for many years..trust me, nobody lost that much "freedom"..We just hear we lost it everday on tv..or wait longer at airports while being checked. I'm nervous to fly without the thought of blowin' up..let 'em check my balls for explosives. I'll turn and cough and save a visit to the doctor's office.

911 was a terrible thing done by terrible people that hate our "freedom". They are the enemy, because they chosed to be. It's kill or be killed..something humans been doing for how many milleniums?

Blame them for any freedoms lost, not your own who attempt to protect us.

"Freedom cost a buck o' five"..

I think

SPD, Yeah ..I can identify with some of that.

You're so wrong about this. I have a friend that will be going to jail because his artwork criticized Monsanto. His case made national news, but that didn't give him any sympathy. The fascists are throwing his ass in jail because of his political views. Simple as that. They tried to get him on a bogus charge, but they failed. So then they went after him for mail fraud (previously a misdemeanor) and they have him dead to rights. He is not the only one to be tossed into jail or threatened with it for simply stating his political views. People in this country are not quite aware of how far the federal gov't is going to police us and shut us up.

[atomic charvel guy]

Yo Danastas,
I was replying to 442w30 not you.

[pott]

I don't buy it. I lived overseas for at least 6 years of my 39 year old life. Let me tell you, there are problems with civil rights in the US, but there are also many problems in Europe. In Germany, an immigrant can't become a citizen until he can prove his balls are 100% totally teutonic. In Italy, the media is a joke that runs on 100% propaganda. In England, you can get sued for slander and it's on you to prove you're not libeling anyone, instead of the other thing around. The US has much more respect in general for freedom of speech than Europe has, and there is also (or used to be) much more freedom in terms of class mobility.

The US has a severe problem that Europe doesn't have, and which Europe is experiencing just now. One, the race problem. And now we have our own religious fundamentals taking away our freedoms. Other than a racist-puritan backgrounds that occasionally makes things very tough on us, freedom-wise, this is a great country. But that racist-puritan background is big obstacle. There's no denying it.

I'm not saying Europe is perfect or better. I'm just pointing to all the Mr American (general term) who go 'go USA, freedom, blabla, home of the free, blabla' that in Europe we're just as free, at least I feel such.
I'm happy in Europe, but based on when I was in the US and Americans talking to me, I simply could NOT live there.

[Bengal]

I think Ruby Ridge and Waco come to mind on this. Or did those happen before?

It is weird though that we are okay with accepting crazy people that live with us, but crazy people from cultures we don't understand scares the hell out of us.

I believe both of those were before. But those were rather different. Those were the government doing what it thought was right. OK City was a terrorist attack, plain and simple...

I totally agree with your second statement...

[442w30]

A dictators dream, maybe, but for families and friends nothing but anger, despair, and tears. I can guarantee it, and to me, that was not imaginable to me that we wou;ld take it in the ass on our own homeland , just my point of view, as you stated in the beginning of your post, i'm happy that you did not lose anyone that day, you're fortunate.

Yes, I am very fortunate in not having any personal connection to that event. The only thing about it is it makes me feel like the only one that can't relate to 9-11 hysteria. I am on the outside of the observation.

For anyone that didn't see that coming, it has to be a sobering and upsetting thing, moreso when it's personal. Apparently the 6 degrees of seperation of the people that were involved that day held true - nearly all Americans have a personal relationship with someone involved.

I definitely am not minimizing the event in any way, just reaching out to see if there is anyone else that was not surprised, but surprised that our gov't reacted by making America less free in response. In a way, the terrorists were effective. The expense and disruption caused was much larger than the impact the instigators immediately created.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

I can agree with what your saying. But we did know that it was possible. That was the second time the WTC was targeted. And have we forgotten about Tim McVeigh and what he did in OK City? Where was the knee-jerk reaction there? Were was the rush to give up civil liberties there? Where was the War on Militias then? Didn't happen. People didn't freak out as much, and I'm not sure why. Must be the body count? Or the fact that the "enemy" after 9/11 wasn't white. One or the other I'm guessing...

Bush was very fortunate that 9/11 happened. It allowed him to do what he wanted to do all along...

I think Ruby Ridge and Waco come to mind on this. Or did those happen before?

It is weird though that we are okay with accepting crazy people that live with us, but crazy people from cultures we don't understand scares the hell out of us.

[danastas]

Exactly.
Except about the freedom to live. Every American who's lived foreign told me they had more freedoms and felt better abroad. That's quite a lot. Everybody's different of course. I feel perfectly free in the UK, Holland or France.
Americans, sorry to tell you that, but most western country provide just the same freedom.

I don't buy it. I lived overseas for at least 6 years of my 39 year old life. Let me tell you, there are problems with civil rights in the US, but there are also many problems in Europe. In Germany, an immigrant can't become a citizen until he can prove his balls are 100% totally teutonic. In Italy, the media is a joke that runs on 100% propaganda. In England, you can get sued for slander and it's on you to prove you're not libeling anyone, instead of the other thing around. The US has much more respect in general for freedom of speech than Europe has, and there is also (or used to be) much more freedom in terms of class mobility.

The US has a severe problem that Europe doesn't have, and which Europe is experiencing just now. One, the race problem. And now we have our own religious fundamentals taking away our freedoms. Other than a racist-puritan backgrounds that occasionally makes things very tough on us, freedom-wise, this is a great country. But that racist-puritan background is big obstacle. There's no denying it.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

Bill, I am not trying to get personal with you, but on this very board you have written that you're a cop on disability. You have a government job with government health care. What else more is there to say? Some small business owner out there is pissed at you because he can't afford his own health care, nor his employees, and yet he has to pay yours.

But he was trading his services for this payment. That's not fair to then call him out like that. Totally different than generations of welfare recipients. Hel not even the same thing!

I think you should take that back as that is totally spinning the deal.

[pott]

Oh and in Europe we've had WAY LESS terrorist attacks since the past 10 years. We haven't lost any freedoms, we don't have any patriot act and we haven't invaded other countries. That doesn't go for the UK of course

[Bengal]

I am probably the only one here, possibly because I did not know anyone directly affected by 9-11, but I didn't think 9-11 was a big deal.

This isn't to belittle its significance, or magnitude of the tragedy, but who doesn't know that a crazy person can wreak havoc on a group of defenseless people.

I amazed that anyone did not think this was a possibility until it happened- yes even in America.

The ridiculous histeria over OMFG 9-11 is crazy to me.

There are a million ways that someone with nothing to lose could bring thousands of people down. And that's just a few uneducated jerks. Not even a biochemist or C130 pilot.

I don't need to give examples, but 9-11 is a dictators dream. People immediately see the benefit of giving all individual rights away, go ridiculously into debt to wage war to save just one life on American soil and here we are. and bring us all together in the name of those folks on 9-11.

This came just in time after the .com crash, telecom crash, before we realized the real estate boom. Coincidence....probably.

Interesting to me, the impact to me from 9-11 is the knee jerk loss of freedom we gave ourselves and the sending of troops overseas, not any fear of Islamic terrorists on American soil.

I can agree with what your saying. But we did know that it was possible. That was the second time the WTC was targeted. And have we forgotten about Tim McVeigh and what he did in OK City? Where was the knee-jerk reaction there? Were was the rush to give up civil liberties there? Where was the War on Militias then? Didn't happen. People didn't freak out as much, and I'm not sure why. Must be the body count? Or the fact that the "enemy" after 9/11 wasn't white. One or the other I'm guessing...

Bush was very fortunate that 9/11 happened. It allowed him to do what he wanted to do all along...

[danastas]

I like Sweden..alot of my favorite bands come from there.

I only have two "gripes" ..healthcare and the price of gas is pathetic.

I don't like government with a special interest agendas. I loathe the idea of MY money paying for ingrateful deadbeats who can't pay their bills. I never even got a thank you card when I did..so fuggums.

It's all about me..

If everyone had that self-preseving mindset, there would be mess less a burden on those that do.

Bill, I am not trying to get personal with you, but on this very board you have written that you're a cop on disability. You have a government job with government health care. What else more is there to say? Some small business owner out there is pissed at you because he can't afford his own health care, nor his employees, and yet he has to pay yours.

[pott]

No of course not. It's the ones that take the Koran literally and kill others in the name of it.

We have freaks over here too. Oklahoma City is just one example and then there are the school shootings. Of course if we found out that a municipality was funding and providing resources to train and recruit freaks that kill others, then they would be dealt with accordingly. Same is true about the entire world in a global economy. The US has become the police for the world because we have the most to lose. This is because we have included the rest of the world in our economy and way of life.

Only good things can come if the other nations in the world held the same general beliefs about the freedom to live as the United States has.

Exactly.
Except about the freedom to live. Every American who's lived foreign told me they had more freedoms and felt better abroad. That's quite a lot. Everybody's different of course. I feel perfectly free in the UK, Holland or France.
Americans, sorry to tell you that, but most western country provide just the same freedom.

[danastas]

A dictators dream, maybe, but for families and friends nothing but anger, despair, and tears. I can guarantee it, and to me, that was not imaginable to me that we wou;ld take it in the ass on our own homeland , just my point of view, as you stated in the beginning of your post, i'm happy that you did not lose anyone that day, you're fortunate.

I have to disagree with you here. I mentioned my brother on Wall Street in a previous post. Where did he use to work? The World Trade Center. He had a meeting up town that morning. Lost a lot of friends.

He called me 7 minutes after the first plain hit. Yes, 7 minutes. I was still asleep. Do you know why he called me so quick? Because he knew. He told my mother back in 1993 that after they tried to take down the towers the first time, that everyone in there went to work every day knowing they were a big target. My mother worried about it for 8 freakin' years. Trust me, I heard it all the time. Working there was an example of cognitive dissonance for everyone that stepped through those doors.

That's why when our CIA reported that "Al Qaeda Determined to Attack" and "Use of Airplanes as Bombs is Likely" in the summer of 2001, and this came across the desk of our Administration, there was no hiding from the excuse that this all came out of the blue. It was even predictable. Hell, we know where we're vulnerable right now. The NYC Subway is a death trap. We have naked nuclear reactors all around the country just waiting to get hit. 95% of the cargo that's offloaded in our ports never gets looked at. And if something horrible happens, then what do we say? Gee, what a surprise?