WTF is wrong the US

[442w30]

I am probably the only one here, possibly because I did not know anyone directly affected by 9-11, but I didn't think 9-11 was a big deal.

This isn't to belittle its significance, or magnitude of the tragedy, but who doesn't know that a crazy person can wreak havoc on a group of defenseless people.

I amazed that anyone did not think this was a possibility until it happened- yes even in America.

The ridiculous histeria over OMFG 9-11 is crazy to me.

There are a million ways that someone with nothing to lose could bring thousands of people down. And that's just a few uneducated jerks. Not even a biochemist or C130 pilot.

I don't need to give examples, but 9-11 is a dictators dream. People immediately see the benefit of giving all individual rights away, go ridiculously into debt to wage war to save just one life on American soil and here we are. and bring us all together in the name of those folks on 9-11.

This came just in time after the .com crash, telecom crash, before we realized the real estate boom. Coincidence....probably.

Interesting to me, the impact to me from 9-11 is the knee jerk loss of freedom we gave ourselves and the sending of troops overseas, not any fear of Islamic terrorists on American soil.

[danastas]

I think this may be one of those things that you choose the see what you want.

I can only think of one person that is worse off today than they were 5 - 7 years ago. And even that is mostly because of his shitty attitude with co-workers so that doesn't even count.

I think you may be falling trap to the doom and gloom stories in the media which is really all about getting votes for the next election. It's a simple strategy by the party that isn't in administration to pursuade the change. I stopped falling for that crap in the early 90's.

This DOES NOT MEAN that I am ignoring the sub prime loan and slowing housing market issues, but based upon my economics knowledge, we can always expect up and downs.

I'm not going by people I personally know. That would be way too small for any real stats or evidence. I'm going by the national numbers that economists use. Rise in median income as measured against rise in inflation and rise in cost of living. These are simply facts.

[atomic charvel guy]

i used to kick ass in the $$$ dept., now i learn to live without it, it's been a tough transition. I basically went back to 1986, and I'm njust not in a band. My industry is toast, i should have learned other product lines to sell, but i'll be back one day. I've finally gotten used to being poor, and that wasn't easy, it sucked the big one. The little things make me lose it with utter joy these days. Have to keep it that way.

[monk]

And the bank who lend you the money did not actually have the money in the first place, since they are only required to cover for like 10% of what they lend out (fractional banking). So, if the bank has $100 they can give you $1000 and then charge interest (on the $1000 of course, not the $100). Why? Because the federal reserve backs them up, else the banks would just end up owing each other money. Maybe this has more with domestic banking to do, but the system is just as screwed.

What happens next? The banks lend out more money than they should have, and this causes inflation. The bank then raises the interest, people get screwed and the bank collects their property, houses and other stuff they had to use as security to get the loan in the first place. The bank is then stuck with a lot of things they really don´t need (like houses), so they are forced to sell the crap off. Normally this is bought by the people who managed to survive the inflation or, like above, foreign speculators. The bank get its money back and they can start over again blaming it all on another one of those "mysterious business cycles". And so it continues...
the bankers get richer and the people are screwed over in a cyclic behavior. Of course, this is spiced with my own cynical view, but there is a reason for why Jesus himself decided to kick the bankers out of the temple. They were famous already back then...grrr.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

Well, I thought we were talking about America. Not you personally. Americans are not getting ahead. On a real basis, taking into account inflation and income rise, as well as cost of living, Americans are now much poorer than they used to be a decade ago. The quality of life is going down. Wages are not only stagnant, they are going backward. High paying jobs are being replaced by McJobs.

You're not very different from a lot of Americans that are doing well, but on the whole, your fellow Americans are doing worse. And as long as we squander our opportunities to compete at the highest levels (by educating and training our workers, by investing in renewable energy, by coming to grips with health care and how our gov't is wasting our tax dollars) then there may come a day when we've dug such a big hole for ourselves that we look at countries like Canada and Sweden with envy (if we already aren't there).

I think this may be one of those things that you choose the see what you want.

I can only think of one person that is worse off today than they were 5 - 7 years ago. And even that is mostly because of his shitty attitude with co-workers so that doesn't even count.

I think you may be falling trap to the doom and gloom stories in the media which is really all about getting votes for the next election. It's a simple strategy by the party that isn't in administration to pursuade the change. I stopped falling for that crap in the early 90's.

This DOES NOT MEAN that I am ignoring the sub prime loan and slowing housing market issues, but based upon my economics knowledge, we can always expect up and downs.

[atomic charvel guy]

holy Shit batman. if the Yankees will just win the world series , the whole world will sit correctly on its axis again and things will improve, I promise it. i'm a realist, and there's one thing I look at since 9-11, have we been attacked again on home soil? The answer is no. That's what I'm afraid of more than anything, because that day was a motherfukker and when you get hit on your own soil it's something this country was not ready for, used to, and still maybe not ready for. And Bush at least has that on his record. I'm pro-Republican, sorry. No i'm not. Sorry that is. With the large buffer between the U.S. and the rest of the world, it has really kept us from having memories like people in Europe in and the middle east have had as they have seen tons of action on their soil seemingly for almost all of time. I need a wake up now , I gotta go. i drink gasoline in the morning now, it's pretty cool actually.

[danastas]

I face reality every day. I live my life. Life is good and has never been better for me and my family.

What is it then that I am missing?

Well, I thought we were talking about America. Not you personally. Americans are not getting ahead. On a real basis, taking into account inflation and income rise, as well as cost of living, Americans are now much poorer than they used to be a decade ago. The quality of life is going down. Wages are not only stagnant, they are going backward. High paying jobs are being replaced by McJobs.

You're not very different from a lot of Americans that are doing well, but on the whole, your fellow Americans are doing worse. And as long as we squander our opportunities to compete at the highest levels (by educating and training our workers, by investing in renewable energy, by coming to grips with health care and how our gov't is wasting our tax dollars) then there may come a day when we've dug such a big hole for ourselves that we look at countries like Canada and Sweden with envy (if we already aren't there).

[SouthPlatteDemon]

By going into more debt.

This is how it works: I give you money from the bank, I get a commission for giving you money. That gives me the financial incentive to give you money, because I make more money when I give you money. So then you tell me you can't pay me. All your friends that I lent money to tell me that they can't pay me. Does that mean I give my commission back? Heck no. That money is mine. So who loses? Well, initially the bank loses, but when banks and mortgage holders have dug a hole so deep that it threatens the national economy, the gov't has to come to the rescue. Unfortunately, our gov't is already at its debt ceiling. It can't funnel cash to the banks. So foreigners (who already own our debt) swoop in and give the banks the money they need to stay afloat. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They are cutting sweetheart deals with these banks, buying paper at a very low rate. That $500,000 home and the mortgage default means the bank is holding property that it can't afford, and soon ownership is bought by foreigners for pennies on the dollar.

Just last week, the Fed asked congress to raise the debt ceiling because we can't pay our bills, and we need more debt to pay off the debt. Think of it as a credit card. You go to the max on one card. Then you get another card to pay off the first card. Then you get another card to help pay off the second card. Pretty soon you have 10 credit cards, and you're paying the minimum monthly on each. Then interest rates rise. You're fucked because the minimum payment rises, and you don't have the cash. So you either go bankrupt or deal with credit counselor.

Well that is simple enough, but I think there are some release valves when it comes to nations. I'd hate to see what kind of deals our nations are making with other nations under the table?

We'll probably find out that Russia or India has been selling/giving Iran the nuclear technology they have. In exchange for what is the question.

[danastas]

I'll admit total ignorance to how all this works. How can we be trillions of dollars in debt but still pay bills?

Anways, I think horns is right. It really comes down to pussy. We really only need to worry about Sweden then cuz they are the only real contenders for our Southern California babes. LOL

By going into more debt.

This is how it works: I give you money from the bank, I get a commission for giving you money. That gives me the financial incentive to give you money, because I make more money when I give you money. So then you tell me you can't pay me. All your friends that I lent money to tell me that they can't pay me. Does that mean I give my commission back? Heck no. That money is mine. So who loses? Well, initially the bank loses, but when banks and mortgage holders have dug a hole so deep that it threatens the national economy, the gov't has to come to the rescue. Unfortunately, our gov't is already at its debt ceiling. It can't funnel cash to the banks. So foreigners (who already own our debt) swoop in and give the banks the money they need to stay afloat. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They are cutting sweetheart deals with these banks, buying paper at a very low rate. That $500,000 home and the mortgage default means the bank is holding property that it can't afford, and soon ownership is bought by foreigners for pennies on the dollar.

Just last week, the Fed asked congress to raise the debt ceiling because we can't pay our bills, and we need more debt to pay off the debt. Think of it as a credit card. You go to the max on one card. Then you get another card to pay off the first card. Then you get another card to help pay off the second card. Pretty soon you have 10 credit cards, and you're paying the minimum monthly on each. Then interest rates rise. You're fucked because the minimum payment rises, and you don't have the cash. So you either go bankrupt or deal with credit counselor.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

The exchange rates matter, but only in terms of the extra interest charged, which pails in comparison to the actual rise of oil. So you pay extra in terms of conversion, but then look at the price of oil. It's rise far exceeds any extra you're paying in currency exchange. That rise in oil has people scurrying to control the very last drop.

I'll admit total ignorance to how all this works. How can we be trillions of dollars in debt but still pay bills?

Anways, I think horns is right. It really comes down to pussy. We really only need to worry about Sweden then cuz they are the only real contenders for our Southern California babes. LOL

[SouthPlatteDemon]

Well, you should pity the people who are left o clean up the mess. You're right, they have been beaten. And they deserve pity. But sometimes you have to face reality.

I face reality every day. I live my life. Life is good and has never been better for me and my family.

What is it then that I am missing?

[danastas]

I'm not so pursuaded by the doom and gloom about our economy. I do like that I see interest and passion in what you guys are saying. It's good to know the youth of our nation are very concerned. I was beginning to think no one cared anymore. I don't think the US will fall in our lifetime. I think the future of the free world looks bright and we can weather anything the world can throw our way.

If you don't feel the same, then I pity you as you have already been beaten.

Well, you should pity the people who are left o clean up the mess. You're right, they have been beaten. And they deserve pity. But sometimes you have to face reality.

[danastas]

Sure, I am not telling anything as if it were the truth. I just like speculating and finding new angels different from the obvious bullshit that the media is feeding us.

On the other hand, if you did not have the control of the "oil currency" such politics as you describe (intentionally lowering the dollar value to benefit certain companies) would not work as easily, right? Then it would actually matter what exchange rates you get when buying oil. I am not saying that oil has nothing to do with it, far from. I just believe that there is more to it then simply just that.

The exchange rates matter, but only in terms of the extra interest charged, which pails in comparison to the actual rise of oil. So you pay extra in terms of conversion, but then look at the price of oil. It's rise far exceeds any extra you're paying in currency exchange. That rise in oil has people scurrying to control the very last drop.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

I'm not so pursuaded by the doom and gloom about our economy. I do like that I see interest and passion in what you guys are saying. It's good to know the youth of our nation are very concerned. I was beginning to think no one cared anymore. I don't think the US will fall in our lifetime. I think the future of the free world looks bright and we can weather anything the world can throw our way.

If you don't feel the same, then I pity you as you have already been beaten.

[monk]

I don't buy the dollars to euro stuff. It doesn't work. Where was the American dollar in 2001? Where is it now?? The Bushies favor a weak dollar because their corporate cohorts reap the rewards when the dollar is weak. Without an Iraq War that has sapped this country's monetary resources to the tune of trillions, they could have completely devalued the dollar anyway and guess where it would be if Iraq continued trading oil in euros? That's right. Exactly where the dollar is now. The currency exchange is done by design. It favors certain kinds of trade, and in this case, a weak dollar is good business for some American companies. Go back to the 80s. We had a weak dollar back then when Reagan and Bush Sr. were in charge. It was Clinton who cut the deficit, taxed the rich, and pumped the dollar back up who tilted that balance.

Oil is a limited natural resource. It will not last forever. This is the one and only reason we are fighting wars there. How does $200 a gallon sound to you?

Sure, I am not telling anything as if it were the truth. I just like speculating and finding new angels different from the obvious bullshit that the media is feeding us.

On the other hand, if you did not have the control of the "oil currency" such politics as you describe (intentionally lowering the dollar value to benefit certain companies) would not work as easily, right? Then it would actually matter what exchange rates you get when buying oil. I am not saying that oil has nothing to do with it, far from. I just believe that there is more to it then simply just that.