WTF is wrong the US

[SouthPlatteDemon]

I'm 21, I'm single That's why I didn't answer the question.

Lying to myself... you're complaining about Iran and THEN complaining that France sold weapons to Saddam?
Do you have any ideas where Saddam got the training and most of his weapons? France were high on the list of weapon supplier for sure... but look at your own country first. I'm certainly not denying that France sold anything to Iraq. You're the one who is attacking France for doing so. Attack your own country first.

Oh also do you have any idea where Ossama got his training?

Where Iran got their weapons? Do you know they have F14s? But it's ok. France probably sold them to Iran. It's ok. I'll take that one. France's famous F14s Tom le chat. With missiles Fenix from le hell.

Dude, I never once said anything about weapons or military training. Try to stay on topic:

France let us down by trying to shift the worlds support of our military action in Iraq. That makes France a potential enemy and thus this boils down to you cuz your the one that is sticking up for Chirac.

Jesus fucking christ and I'm the one that is being called young and stupid.

[442w30]

Don't lie to yourself. It is all related to 9/11. Duh.

France didn't want us to go there because France is in bed with Saddam and his son. Oil!

You don't get it? I thought it was funny. Will you answer the question?

SPD,
I am going to have to disagree with you on this.
We went to Iraq on the FALSE premise that Afghanistan was done and Saddam had WMDs and was supporting Al-Queda. We went there (who really knows why - let's just say the pres had bad info, which is unlikely, but the USA book answer) and destroyed the oppressive and bad gov't that held a disparate nation together much like Marshall Tito did for Yugoslavia. The created an environment that is/was a haven for terrorists and Sunni on Shiite on Kurd vilence with Al Queda thrown in to create entropy.

France probably didn't see the reason to kick the hornet's nest and we yelled commie when they didn't want to kick it too.

France has a lot of contrarian attitude when it comes to US meddling in the world's affairs, but I wouldn't begrudge any nation for not signing up for that one. I believe that South Korea, Britain and others went there because of their belief in our intelligence reports and assurances by our gov't that we'd find WMDs. They are less sceptical of the USA rationale and that is appreciated, but I don't know of any really good explanation of why we are actually in Iraq.

We are there because they (Iraq) don't have any government control and Al-Queda is terrorizing the people and gov't. The Iraq gov't is unable to control the situation because we crushed the dictator that had it under control through methods we found barbaric. The reason we crushed him wasn't for how he treated his people, but because they had weapons that turned out not to exist. This is circular logic and should bother people.

[Bengal]

What kills me is the idea that we need to do something about Iran while we still can. What makes you think we can? We are fighting a war in Iraq with National Guard members, not full time military. We are not winning that war. We can't clean up New Orleans. Our own economy is in shambles, look how good the dollar is doing against the pound or the euro. We can't pay for the war in Iraq, we have to borrow money from "GASP" China to pay for it...

What makes you think we are in any position to dictate what needs to be done in Iran? Some of you need to get off the idea that we are still a Super Power. The only thing that makes us that still is the nukes we have. We are in NO condition to start a war in Iran. We can't sustain the one in Iraq or Afghanastan....

Yep, we need another war like I need a hole in my head...

[danastas]

It's all about the rich screwing the poor. Always was, always will be. Talk of conservatives, moderates and liberals anywhere is all swallowed up by the real game. Who controls who? What kind of propaganda is spewed to keep people in line. If you really believe that the Pres. of Iran is taking this holocaust line because he believes it, you are naive. He's doing it to stick it to Israel to garner votes. His line about the holocaust is no different than Bush's line about Gog and Magog. Both are inflammatory statements meant to appeal to right-wing fundamentalist religious voters. Like I said, these countries would drop the Palestinian cause instantly if only they were getting paid. $$$. You keep your people in line while you collect the rewards. Saudi Arabia has figured this out. Iran hasn't because they want to keep a bigger chunk for themselves, and if I had to choose between ONLY Iran AND Saudi Arabia, I would certainly rather live in Iran, which is a much more westernized country than our so-called allies in Saudi Arabia.

All these so-called issues that blow-up are used to put pressure on people because so that the big boys can reap more of the profits. Let me ask: how much did Iranians care about the Palestinians while the Shah was in charge and Iranian women were walking around in public in mini-skirts in a beautiful city? Look at the Middle East 40 years ago, with beautiful westernized cities like Tehran and Beirut, etc. During the same period, our great so-called Westernized cities like Athens, Prague, Chicago were having huge riots in the streets, with military and police bashing anyone who was protesting. What changed? There are easy answers to these questions, and it all has to do with money.

[pott]

I'm 21, I'm single That's why I didn't answer the question.

Lying to myself... you're complaining about Iran and THEN complaining that France sold weapons to Saddam?
Do you have any ideas where Saddam got the training and most of his weapons? France were high on the list of weapon supplier for sure... but look at your own country first. I'm certainly not denying that France sold anything to Iraq. You're the one who is attacking France for doing so. Attack your own country first.

Oh also do you have any idea where Ossama got his training?

Where Iran got their weapons? Do you know they have F14s? But it's ok. France probably sold them to Iran. It's ok. I'll take that one. France's famous F14s Tom le chat. With missiles Fenix from le hell.

[SouthPlatteDemon]

Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, unlike what you implied. If France thought you had no valid reasons to go there, then so be it. I don't see how refusing to take part was such an insult or how it made us an 'enemy'.

I don't quite get the wife comment.

Don't lie to yourself. It is all related to 9/11. Duh.

France didn't want us to go there because France is in bed with Saddam and his son. Oil!

You don't get it? I thought it was funny. Will you answer the question?

[pott]

Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, unlike what you implied. If France thought you had no valid reasons to go there, then so be it. I don't see how refusing to take part was such an insult or how it made us an 'enemy'.

I don't quite get the wife comment.

I also don't get how that makes me personally an enemy. Did I chose not to go to Iraq? I don't think so. I don't pay French taxes, I don't vote, I don't live there... so I'm an enemy because your president couldn't prove his war and as a result 'my' president chose not to go to war?

[SouthPlatteDemon]

I'm still waiting to hear from SouthPlatteDemon. Do many other Americans feel France and the coalition shouldn't have helped in Afghanistan and that it was an inconsiderate and wrong action to take?

Do you still beat your wife?

You know I'm talking about Iraq not Afghanistan.

[danastas]

Probably because ROTC is NOT allowed on that campus while MyMood Ineedajihad is..

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/rotc/

You guys should not believe all the right-wing propaganda about univiersities, most of which is funded by Mellon-Scaife. I've even had a friend paid $400k to make a documentary about professors, and what a waste of $400k that was.

[pott]

I'm still waiting to hear from SouthPlatteDemon. Do many other Americans feel France and the coalition shouldn't have helped in Afghanistan and that it was an inconsiderate and wrong action to take?

[Cygnus X1]

The U.S. is stuck in a giant catch 22, damned if we do and damned if we don't.


I find it funny that in Iran they are throwing a fit because he was treated so "rudely" here by protesters and the like. Boo-hoo. Because we all know how free speech goes over there, pfffft.

Once in a while, it leaks out that the younger generations in the mideast aren't too happy with the fundamentalists that are ruling. We can only hope and encourage them to choose their own destiny.

[Evol]

The U.S. is stuck in a giant catch 22, damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Crazies like AhmenaJihad should never be given any recognition in the international arena. We're talking about a man who wants to change history in his own country (and others if he had his way) about denying the holocaust. Someone who calls for the destruction of a nation and it's people. I guess that would make him one of the biggest racists in power currently, and he appears to not care what anyone thinks.

Now, given that rhetoric, people think we should "mind our business" ,...screw that, this man is dangerous!

So here we are stuck, if we do something about it now while we still can, people the world over will hate us. But, more importantly if we don't do anything, everyone will blame us for it. Given the only 2 choices there are, I don't want to have to explain to my grandchildren one day that we had that chance , and even after learning all the lessons that history have taught us, we did nothing, sorry about that. We were more worried what people thought of us, and wanted to try diplomacy and whatnot which obviously didn't work in the past and won't work with a religious zealot.

I find it funny that in Iran they are throwing a fit because he was treated so "rudely" here by protesters and the like. Boo-hoo. Because we all know how free speech goes over there, pfffft.

[shobet]

I think some of the points in this thread have been very interesting. On the whole it's supported my opinion that most people over the world are fairly similar in what they think and what they want out of life. People tend to be proud of who they are and where they are from. I'm quite proud to be Welsh/British, but there are times I feel my government makes wrong decisions which taint that pride. I'm too much of a cynic to trust my government, and I think that the system we have is failing us.

I distrust the US administration as I do most administrations, and unfortunately I think that the perception of the US has in the past few decades been shaped by that. I like the US when I've visited there, you have a great country and the people I've met there and online are on the whole nice people. Every society has it's more extreme fringes and they have every right to their opinions as I have to mine.

I haven't forgotten that the US joined in in WW1 and 2, all the equipment you supplied was for free from the reading I have done, however the loans we were given to get ourselves back on our feet were only recently paid back so it wasn't all free. I'm not moaning about it, that's just the way it is.

I'm sorry that we over this side of the pond seem to give the impression that we hate Americans, I think you'll find it's not hate, more distrust. The media is partly responsible for that but I'd rather our media to yours. Your country strikes me as brash, slightly undereducated in parts, particularly inward looking and seemingly only interested in itself. You could argue that is the fault of your media (from my experience of watching your news channels, nothing seemed to ever happen outside your borders), but the media industry tends to be driven by what the consumer wants.

I'll visit again, (if I can be bothered to fill in the forms and stand in line for a couple of hours at immigration) the dollar is so week against the pound at the moment, everything over there is half price to us. On the whole the people here on this board have tended to go against my general perception of Americans, and that's a good thing I think.

[Outlander]

I'm amazed they haven't jerked this thread yet.
If I'm not mistaken I believe way way back the Jews killed and drove everyone out of what they believed was the promised land when they settled there! (Canaan)?

In any case none of us are innocent.

[Razor]

Duno... I ever bash the US. I personally think it's pretty darn stupid to bash a whole country. Glad we do agree on some things Like I said, I never met anybody who forgot on the European side, but I have on the American side. There most likely are on both sides of course. Looks like we're both a bit biased from our experiences

I'd personally kick any Euro's ass who forgot of the sacrifice all those nations made for us, and the rest of the world, in any war. Well I couldn't kick their ass since I'm small, light and have no clue how to fight but you get what I mean...

France involvement wasn't just Yorktown. Lafayette came over with an army, weapons, training, a fleet... He destroyed the British blockade. It's my personal belief that he was a DETERMINING factor in the US' independence. I've studied some of the facts and all the factors were overwhelmingly on the Brit's side without him. And no I'm not biased towards France since I wasn't even born, nor do I give a shit about my country.

So I guess now isn't a good time to bring up the "XYZ Affair".