WTF is wrong the US

[Evol]

Evol,
Wow, I hit a nerve with you. Cool. I see your very passionate about your stance with Iran.

Yep. As a child I had to watch the TV in horror as the revolution took over with my Grandfather stuck in Iran desperately trying to sneak out and get away. Thank god he made it, that was the best phone call I ever got in my life, unfortunately other Americans weren't so lucky.

That's great. Why don't you do the military a favor and sign up and head on over? They could use a few people like you...

I don't much care for the haircuts! I hold our service men and women in the highest regard and don't even think of myself as good enough to part of that elite force. Besides I'm over the sign up age But I sure as hell can support them from home, and arrange to send them stuff they need and want etc. I can at least do something other than talk.

You could learn to appreciate those who give you the freedom to talk so much trash a bit more.

I'll say again, Iran is a bigger threat to Israel than us. We have bigger threats in the Middle East than Iran. I don't know how anyone can argue that point. But you will, and I'll probably ignore it...

A bigger threat in the middle east than a nuclear armed Iran? Wow, well we should let the U.N. and all the other countries in the region know, since they would appear to disagree with you about that. Consider your point argued, in this corner the world....in that corner...well, hmm, it would seem just to be you.

I'm sure all those chants of "Death to America" are just accidents....the burning effigies of our presidents for decades... no threat here...move along...

Like I said it's ok if you want to "ignore it" as you say...hey wow I just realized if you say that phrase fast it kinda sounds like "ignorant"...hmmm...

Yes, you're right, you're probably ignorant. But!! That's ok, because we have a great nation of people to look out for you and keep you safe! And get this, there are others in the world that want the same for their peoples too! So don't worry, you'll be fine!

[Bengal]

Yep. As a child I had to watch the TV in horror as the revolution took over with my Grandfather stuck in Iran desperately trying to sneak out and get away. Thank god he made it, that was the best phone call I ever got in my life, unfortunately other Americans weren't so lucky.


I don't much care for the haircuts! I hold our service men and women in the highest regard and don't even think of myself as good enough to part of that elite force. Besides I'm over the sign up age But I sure as hell can support them from home, and arrange to send them stuff they need and want etc. I can at least do something other than talk.

You could learn to appreciate those who give you the freedom to talk so much trash a bit more.

A bigger threat in the middle east than a nuclear armed Iran? Wow, well we should let the U.N. and all the other countries in the region know, since they would appear to disagree with you about that. Consider your point argued, in this corner the world....in that corner...well, hmm, it would seem just to be you.

I'm sure all those chants of "Death to America" are just accidents....the burning effigies of our presidents for decades... no threat here...move along...

Like I said it's ok if you want to "ignore it" as you say...hey wow I just realized if you say that phrase fast it kinda sounds like "ignorant"...hmmm...

Yes, you're right, you're probably ignorant. But!! That's ok, because we have a great nation of people to look out for you and keep you safe! And get this, there are others in the world that want the same for their peoples too! So don't worry, you'll be fine!

Remind me of something, when did I exactly piss in your cereal?

So saying that the war in Iraq is a quagmire is not supporting the troops? Is that right? I cannot disagree with the administration or else I'm labled as being non-supportive? Is that right? I'm just getting it straight so I can play by your rules. So not wanting them to be over there getting killed is non-supportive? Just trying to figure out what frame of mind your in...

Call me names all you want. That's what usually happens. When you can't beat someone down with your opnion, name calling is next. That's cool. I get that game as well. I just try not to do it...

[Bengal]

I would also ad that the "Death To America" chants you have been hearing is mostly due to our support of Israel. The Iran government doesn't like the US, I would bet a majority of the Iranian people could give 2 shits about us. Kinda like here. Our government doesn't like Iraq, most of the american people don't care either way...

But I'll stand by my statement that it's our blind support of Israel that's gotten us where we are. What we need to do is stand up and tell Israel to recognize Palestine as a state and back out of the occupied territories. If we did that, I think you'd see a drastic change in feelings towards us from the Middle East. But we won't do that. And we keep pumping money into Israel, a terrorist state if I've ever seen one. We give them more money than any other country. Weapons too...

Besides, Iran couldn't hit the US with a Nuke even if they wanted to. So I don't really see the threat there...

But call me ignorant or whatever. That's where this has gone...

[lerxstcat]

Multiculturalism only worked in Byzantium and the Ottoman Empire from approx. 500 AD until 1821 AD. That's a long stretch of many ethnicities living together, many religions living together, without any major massacres or killing. The only breakouts in killing during this period were either from external attacks (the Crusades) or else the period when the Byzantines fell and the Ottomans came in (the 1400s). Otherwise, millions of people of mixed ethnicity and religion lived with each other peacefully. Once nationalism and this whole idea of needing to have separate identities came into vogue in the 19th century, that's when the killing started. That's when all the wars started. The Western Europeans were already at war with one another long before that, and no one has done more killing in the last few hundred years than the Western European. 50 million dead. The Muslims can't compete with that.

I guess you don't know that the Ottomans were an anomaly in the Muslim world and in fact many if not most Arab nations held them in contempt because of it. In fact the Ottomans adopted the Byzantine attitude of live and let live after centuries of both conflict and close contact. It wasn't a typical Muslim outlook. The only other place where Muslim culture was so tolerant was in Spain, for similar reasons.

And when the Muslim rulers of Spain asked their Moroccan brethren for help against the Christian kingdoms, the Moroccans came in, found the spanish Muslims to be corrupt for this tolerance, and deposed and imprisoned them themselves. That is more typical of Islam, not tolerance.

[lerxstcat]

I would also ad that the "Death To America" chants you have been hearing is mostly due to our support of Israel. The Iran government doesn't like the US, I would bet a majority of the Iranian people could give 2 shits about us. Kinda like here. Our government doesn't like Iraq, most of the american people don't care either way...

But I'll stand by my statement that it's our blind support of Israel that's gotten us where we are. What we need to do is stand up and tell Israel to recognize Palestine as a state and back out of the occupied territories. If we did that, I think you'd see a drastic change in feelings towards us from the Middle East. But we won't do that. And we keep pumping money into Israel, a terrorist state if I've ever seen one. We give them more money than any other country. Weapons too...

Besides, Iran couldn't hit the US with a Nuke even if they wanted to. So I don't really see the threat there...

But call me ignorant or whatever. That's where this has gone...

"Palestinians" have a country; it's called Jordan. Palestinians are actually Jordanians, they didn't call themselves Palestinians until the 1960s. And the first chairman of the PLO as late as the 1950s declared that there WAS no such thing as a Palestinian nation.

[Bengal]

"Palestinians" have a country; it's called Jordan. Palestinians are actually Jordanians, they didn't call themselves Palestinians until the 1960s. And the first chairman of the PLO as late as the 1950s declared that there WAS no such thing as a Palestinian nation.

And there was no Israel before 1948. I don't see the point...

Palestine was always there. Maybe called something different. Trans-Jordan then named Jordan in 1946...

Actually I remember the term Palestinian being used as early as the 1940's. The term refered to Israeli Jews. It shifted sometime after that...

But having said that. The war is not between Israeli's and Palestinians, it's between Arabs and Jews...

[lerxstcat]

You're so wrong about this. I have a friend that will be going to jail because his artwork criticized Monsanto. His case made national news, but that didn't give him any sympathy. The fascists are throwing his ass in jail because of his political views. Simple as that. They tried to get him on a bogus charge, but they failed. So then they went after him for mail fraud (previously a misdemeanor) and they have him dead to rights. He is not the only one to be tossed into jail or threatened with it for simply stating his political views. People in this country are not quite aware of how far the federal gov't is going to police us and shut us up.

Sounds like he's going to jail for mail fraud to me; if they have him dead to rights then he's guilty of mail fraud, right? He's probably spinning it to make himself a martyr, and since you're predisposed, you buy it.

[lerxstcat]

And there was no Israel before 1948. I don't see the point...

Palestine was always there. Maybe called something different. Trans-Jordan then named Jordan in 1946...

Israel existed in Biblical times. The 1948 establishment was only a RE-establishment of the nation the Romans destroyed. Surely you know that?

[Bengal]

Israel existed in Biblical times. The 1948 establishment was only a RE-establishment of the nation the Romans destroyed. Surely you know that?

Check my edit. But I'm not sure what your debating. If there was a Palestinian state then? Now? Biblical times? Either way, there is one now and that's the problem they are having over there. Israels denial of the state...

That and they are just as much of terrorists as the other side is...

[lerxstcat]

Actually I remember the term Palestinian being used as early as the 1940's. The term refered to Israeli Jews. It shifted sometime after that...

But having said that. The war is not between Israeli's and Palestinians, it's between Arabs and Jews...

Thought I'd comment on your edit. Yes, "Palestinian" meant Israeli Jews from the 1850s to the 1940s, as Jewish settlers came into the land of Israel to resettle the ancestral homeland. That homeland had been wrecked and abandoned for centuries.

Only after the Jews improved the land did Jordanian Arabs start moving there, ultimately claiming to be the original inhabitants. You know of course that it's perfectly fine to lie to the infidel according to the Koran, right?

[Bengal]

Thought I'd comment on your edit. Yes, "Palestinian" meant Israeli Jews from the 1850s to the 1940s, as Jewish settlers came into the land of Israel to resettle the ancestral homeland. That homeland had been wrecked and abandoned for centuries.

Only after the Jews improved the land did Jordanian Arabs start moving there, ultimately claiming to be the original inhabitants. You know of course that it's perfectly fine to lie to the infidel according to the Koran, right?

Never read the Koran so I won't speak on that...

The "I was here first!" "No I was here first" arguement seems to not hold water right now. The issue is what it is and it's now coming home to roost. We have to deal with it sooner or later....

[lerxstcat]

Check my edit. But I'm not sure what your debating. If there was a Palestinian state then? Now? Biblical times? Either way, there is one now and that's the problem they are having over there. Israels denial of the state...

That and they are just as much of terrorists as the other side is...

Arabs have never been the concerted targets of genocide like the Jews have been through much of their history, culminating in Germany's active Holocaust and Europe's quiet complicity in that.

The supposed Palestinians claim to statehood has the same credibility as that of the Aryan Nations in the PNW United States; that is, it's bogus. Their state is Jordan. They're all welcome to live there. They are perpetrating a fraud upon the world. That's my point.

[Bengal]

Arabs have never been the concerted targets of genocide like the Jews have been through much of their history, culminating in Germany's active Holocaust and Europe's quiet complicity in that.

The supposed Palestinians claim to statehood has the same credibility as that of the Aryan Nations in the PNW United States; that is, it's bogus. Their state is Jordan. They're all welcome to live there. They are perpetrating a fraud upon the world. That's my point.

I see your point. I just don't agree with it...

Yes, the Jews have gone through alot in their time, no doubt about it. Do they deserve their own country? Sure, why not. Do the people living there have a right to be pissed when they are pushed out? Sure, why not. When we support 1 side with billions of dollars and weapons, should we expect people to be pissed at us? People who support the other side? Sure, why not. That's all I'm saying. I belive it's our support of Israel that has put us in the position we are in. Not saying either side is right or wrong. THEY should handle it, not us. Let them figure it out. Same stance I took in Iraq. If the people hated Saddam, let them figure it out...

[lerxstcat]

I see your point. I just don't agree with it...

Yes, the Jews have gone through alot in their time, no doubt about it. Do they deserve their own country? Sure, why not. Do the people living there have a right to be pissed when they are pushed out? Sure, why not. When we support 1 side with billions of dollars and weapons, should we expect people to be pissed at us? People who support the other side? Sure, why not. That's all I'm saying. I belive it's our support of Israel that has put us in the position we are in. Not saying either side is right or wrong. THEY should handle it, not us. Let them figure it out. Same stance I took in Iraq. If the people hated Saddam, let them figure it out...

So should we let the illegal immigrants in California declare their own nation, and relinquish US sovereignty? Same basic scenario.

The Jews came back into that country and made it prosper, then the Jordanian Arabs wanted in on that prosperity, indeed to take it over. If they got their wish they'd just let it go back to shit like it was for so many years when they could have had it to themselves if they'd wanted it.

The Palestinian story is just that - a story. They are Jordanian Arabs and have a country, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

As for Iraq, if Saddam hadn't fucked with us vis a vis the Gulf War and firing at our planes as they patrolled the no-fly zone for 12 years, maybe you'd have a point. As it is, if it were up to me, since democracy doesn't seem to work there, I'd arm the Kurds to run the place. We'd right another longterm wrong - the Kurds are the largest ethnicity on Earth without their own nation. And we'd have another ally in the Mideast that would be reliable in much the same way that Israel is.

Why be involved in the Mideast? Yep, oil! If you disagree with war for oil, divorce yourself completely from the use of oil. That means no buying anything that's transported by truck, which is everything you own. Don't want to do that? Then admit that you enjoy the fruits of the system yourself.

[Bengal]

So should we let the illegal immigrants in California declare their own nation, and relinquish US sovereignty? Same basic scenario.

The Jews came back into that country and made it prosper, then the Jordanian Arabs wanted in on that prosperity, indeed to take it over. If they got their wish they'd just let it go back to shit like it was for so many years when they could have had it to themselves if they'd wanted it.

The Palestinian story is just that - a story. They are Jordanian Arabs and have a country, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.

As for Iraq, if Saddam hadn't fucked with us vis a vis the Gulf War and firing at our planes as they patrolled the no-fly zone for 12 years, maybe you'd have a point. As it is, if it were up to me, since democracy doesn't seem to work there, I'd arm the Kurds to run the place. We'd right another longterm wrong - the Kurds are the largest ethnicity on Earth without their own nation. And we'd have another ally in the Mideast that would be reliable in much the same way that Israel is.

Why be involved in the Mideast? Yep, oil! If you disagree with war for oil, divorce yourself completely from the use of oil. That means no buying anything that's transported by truck, which is everything you own. Don't want to do that? Then admit that you enjoy the fruits of the system yourself.

You really need to go back and read the last 14 pages. If you had, you wouldn't ask about the oil thing. I've made myself quite clear on that...

You still are missing my point. It's not our fight. OK, the Jews deserve to be in Israel. I get it. Once again, I'll state my point. Last time though. It's not our business. We have no reason to supply them with arms and money. If we do, we better understand that's going to piss some people off. Rather elementary, if you ask me. That's my point...