What is happening in our schools?

[monk]

It's people with this kind of mindset that are running certain schoolboards and town councils. This is the kind of thing that happens when people don't bother to vote. With rare exception a very small, but vocal minority from the very far left come down the same way on issues like lemmings following Marx and Engles from the birth of communism.
And it's people like this that love to drag out the accusation that conservatives are "close-minded", "prejiduced", "infantile", in their thinking when they are actually exposed on issues like this. To me, conservatism is all about personal choices. And the parents are the ones who have the responsibility for the choices of their children. Not "the state".
Giving away condoms, birth control,needles, drugs, or whatever is patently approving the activity it supports. And it undermines the authority of the parent by instilling into the CHILD that if the "State" says it's ok, then the parents must be wrong. It's just scary, the fact that some people will turn over their authority to government, and then defend it to others.

Maybe, but there is a strong correlation between adolescent pregnancy and the environment in which the child is growing up. Poverty, violence, sexual abuse, low education, single parenting or whatever all increases the likelihood of early sexual debut or teenage pregnancy. And, teenage pregnancy is of course more likely to cause all the factors above which makes it a circular problem.

If the parents suck at parenting, what do you do? There would be no reason for having a state if everyone was capable of making rational decisions....

[Thrust]

*edit*--Nevermind, no use getting into a political discussion on a guitar board

[Cygnus X1]

*edit*--Nevermind, no use getting into a political discussion on a guitar board

Hear, hear...
I try to bite my tongue, but some things get my hackles up.
Zappa: "Shut Up and Play yer Guitar"

[blindmuddy]

This is a real touchy subject. Since I've become a parent it has been appauling to me how many so called "parents" (more like egg and sperm donors) do nothing but bitch about their kids and think it's society's and the school's responsibility to raise their kid's right. The whole "takes a village" attitude makes me sick. It takes parents, negligent parents should see what the inside of county jail looks like.

[Endrik]

I don't.
It's not the school, or the tax payers responsibility to provide birth control to anyone.

That is a medical decision that is made by the parents of the MINOR child.

Also, not all females can take the pill. The side effects are not common to all girls and to some, can be deadly.

Again... the PARENTS should be taking the lead on this. Either raise your kids (boys and girls) right, or PAY for the fucking pills yourself.

yeah it should be the parents responsibility but as said many times in this thread and in many other threads... a lot of parents these days are morons... you might raise your child well but that doesn't mean the others will... so I don't think the children with lousy parents should suffer.

Yes there are side effects... and that's why should the school do (or pay for) the medical tests before they are giving out pills.

It's people with this kind of mindset that are running certain schoolboards and town councils. This is the kind of thing that happens when people don't bother to vote. With rare exception a very small, but vocal minority from the very far left come down the same way on issues like lemmings following Marx and Engles from the birth of communism.
And it's people like this that love to drag out the accusation that conservatives are "close-minded", "prejiduced", "infantile", in their thinking when they are actually exposed on issues like this. To me, conservatism is all about personal choices. And the parents are the ones who have the responsibility for the choices of their children. Not "the state".
Giving away condoms, birth control,needles, drugs, or whatever is patently approving the activity it supports. And it undermines the authority of the parent by instilling into the CHILD that if the "State" says it's ok, then the parents must be wrong. It's just scary, the fact that some people will turn over their authority to government, and then defend it to others.

are you comparing me to the communists and marxists? if you do then I advise you to STFU, you don't know me and know where I'm coming from, so stop with your "it's people like this" BS. Communism has affected my family and relatives a lot more than your life... you know it from the newspapers... I know it personally. And what has all that to do with birth controls?

And you are comparing sex to drug use???? One is every person's personal choice the other is illeagal activity.
And giving away condoms is a bad thing???? Please, it's 21th century... HIV is spreading like motherfucker.

Yet again you miss the point, no matter how good the parents are, there are allways some kids who are doing things wich they aren't supposed to do.
I've seen shit loads of people on this board telling how much drugs they used when they were very young. Does that mean they all have lousy parents?
I think it's better to prevent the real disaster even if it hurts your personal ego and views. That's all I'm saying. Prevention is the key.

[Cygnus X1]

Take it to a political website, Endrik.

You have taken this to a personal flaming level, and I won't participate.

I vote for freedom, choice of the informed voters, and trust little to
the government.

[Shawn Lutz]

While I don't approve of it the older folks need ot realize that times are different today than when we were 11 and 12. People are becomming sexually active and a much younger age than it used to be. Its a different fucked up world today.

A lot of times it won't matter how good of a parent you are if kids wanna fuck their gonna fuck and there isnt anythting you can do about it. I'd prefer no sex but if I had to choose between birth control for a 12 year old and a pregnant 12 year old well thats an easy choice

My two sons are 12 and 13 and you'll be shocked to see some of their friends (who are girls) myspace pages...little slutty poses, 1/2 nekkid pictures of themselves etc. I wonder if their parents even look at what their kids are wearing or what they are posting online...pretty sad actually

[Endrik]

Take it to a political website, Endrik.

You have taken this to a personal flaming level, and I won't participate.

I vote for freedom, choice of the informed voters, and trust little to
the government.

you are gotta be kidding me?

you started personal flaming towards me and all the talk about communism/marxism and then you don't want to participate

ahaa take it to a political website.... another comedian

While I don't approve of it the older folks need ot realize that times are different today than when we were 11 and 12. People are becomming sexually active and a much younger age than it used to be. Its a different fucked up world today.

A lot of times it won't matter how good of a parent you are if kids wanna fuck their gonna fuck and there isnt anythting you can do about it. I'd prefer no sex but if I had to choose between birth control for a 12 year old and a pregnant 12 year old well thats an easy choice

My two sons are 12 and 13 and you'll be shocked to see some of their friends (who are girls) myspace pages...little slutty poses, 1/2 nekkid pictures of themselves etc. I wonder if their parents even look at what their kids are wearing or what they are posting online...pretty sad actually

well said man

[Spivonious]

Just to throw my two cents in...

Endrik - yes it's a person's choice whether or not to have sex, HOWEVER, if you're under 18, you are legally a minor and your parents are responsible for you. If they don't want you having sex, then you shouldn't be.

Cygnus is trying to say that the school a.k.a. the public should not be responsible for these kids. If the parents are okay with the kids having sex, then they can go to their doctor and get a prescription for birth control pills. I don't want my taxes going towards supporting 11 year-old orgies.

Yes there are always bad kids who do whatever they want to. They should have to face the consequences, and if that means another teen mother, or another person suffering from AIDS, then so be it. People have to learn to live with their decisions.

[sandbag]

you also gotta think about how girls who are 15 nowadays easily could pass for 18/19......damn hormones in cheeseburgers and milk......

[Endrik]

Just to throw my two cents in...

Endrik - yes it's a person's choice whether or not to have sex, HOWEVER, if you're under 18, you are legally a minor and your parents are responsible for you. If they don't want you having sex, then you shouldn't be.

mhmh but parents don't want you to smoke pot, drink beer, watch porno, party, masturbate, wear heavy metal t-shirts etc. it doesn't stop the kids.... kids want to be rebels and do everything that's forbidden... we all know it... that's why there should be something that prevents the absolute disaster from happening... 11 year olds getting pregnant in this case.

[yard dawg]

Well if these little 11 yr old dummies get the pill then they in there little 11 yr old brains will thinks everything is ok. You let this happen and you will see a HUGE increase of STds in kids. HUGE increase!!! I guess if we dont have any standards then everything is "right". If everything is "right" and nothing is wrong then where is the line? Whats "right" for you may not be what I think is "right". There are no lines anymore. All this free sex and do whatever feels good has gotten us nowhere. When these little 11 yr old dummies get STDS who pays for it? Do we get another govt program to cover the costs? Its a proven fact that a kid DOES NOT have the ability to understand the consequences (sp) of there actions. That ability doesnt come until one is much much older.

The issue here is that Endrik and others who support this dont think its morally wrong versus the ones who do. Who is right? What standard do we use? The govt isnt forcing these pills down there throats. I think we would all agree that is bad,but there are some who think that many women should be force fed pills because they cant stop making bastards.

The well theyre going to do it anyway arguement isnt a good one either because again we have no standards of what is right and wrong. Whos standard do we use? We take that attitude with alot of issues. Well we cant make that illegal because they will do it anyway so its ok. What happens when the number of pedefiles grows to the point we just say well theyre just going to do it anyway so why not allow it? What happens when the age of consent is challenged? Its 18 now in most states but alot of people think it should be lower. Whos standard do we use? The majority? The majority once said blacks were less than human and baught and sold them like animals. Its all about whos standard is "right". No one wants to agree on a standard so everything goes? Nothing is wrong? That is the issue here. Whos satndard of right and wrong do we use? Neither side wants to give in so we argue and fuss and debate meanwhile the breakdown of the family and the undermining of parental athority keeps marching on

[Spivonious]

mhmh but parents don't want you to smoke pot, drink beer, watch porno, party, masturbate, wear heavy metal t-shirts etc. it doesn't stop the kids.... kids want to be rebels and do everything that's forbidden... we all know it... that's why there should be something that prevents the absolute disaster from happening... 11 year olds getting pregnant in this case.

I'll go through each with my opinion of them. Some are bad, some aren't. Rebels will be rebels, but we have a responsibility as parents to teach them right from wrong and hope that they make good decisions. I rebelled by listening to heavy metal and driving my car in stupid ways. Having sex is not (and should not be) an accepted form of rebellion, especially when the kid is in 6th grade.

Smoke pot - can lead to abuse of pot/other drugs, leading to throwing money, health, and friends down the drain. Consequences teach the lesson.

Drink beer - everyone I know who drank so much they puked and passed out swore off drinking the next day, and even though they started again, they usually don't drink as crazily as they did. Consequences teach the lesson.

Party - I'm not sure what this means, since it's typically associated with getting drunk, so see above

Masturbate - this is a natural thing, and while I wouldn't encourage it, I'm not going to get mad if my child is doing it. Plus it's a great way to get out any built up puberty-driven sex drives. There are no long term consequences.

Watch porn - see masturbate

wear heavy metal shirts - this is just retarded. Only the most strict, stuck-up parents have a problem with this, as long as the shirts are decent (e.g. no nudity, profanity, etc.), you are wearing these in public. There are no long term consequences.

Having sex at 11 - leads to warped view of how relationships work, teen pregnancy, STDs, pretty much ruins any plans you had for your life. - extreme long term consequences.

Supplying birth control to teens is like supplying a free taxi ride home from the party, or free medical care when you overdose on some drug, or a get out of jail free card when you kill someone. It is exactly like saying "Hey this is okay to do, someone will be there to fix it when things get messed up."

The government exists to protect rights and freedoms, not to hold everyone's hand and dig them out of a bad spot. If I wanted that, I'd move to a more socialist country, such as Canada, the UK, or France.

[jwoods986]

It's bad enough when 14 or 15 year olds are having sex - but 11!! That's ridiculous! And no, my tax dollars shouldn't be going to giving them free birth control.

[Endrik]

Well if these little 11 yr old dummies get the pill then they in there little 11 yr old brains will thinks everything is ok. You let this happen and you will see a HUGE increase of STds in kids. HUGE increase!!! I guess if we dont have any standards then everything is "right". If everything is "right" and nothing is wrong then where is the line? Whats "right" for you may not be what I think is "right". There are no lines anymore. All this free sex and do whatever feels good has gotten us nowhere. When these little 11 yr old dummies get STDS who pays for it? Do we get another govt program to cover the costs? Its a proven fact that a kid DOES NOT have the ability to understand the consequences (sp) of there actions. That ability doesnt come until one is much much older.

The issue here is that Endrik and others who support this dont think its morally wrong versus the ones who do. Who is right? What standard do we use? The govt isnt forcing these pills down there throats. I think we would all agree that is bad,but there are some who think that many women should be force fed pills because they cant stop making bastards.

The well theyre going to do it anyway arguement isnt a good one either because again we have no standards of what is right and wrong. Whos standard do we use? We take that attitude with alot of issues. Well we cant make that illegal because they will do it anyway so its ok. What happens when the number of pedefiles grows to the point we just say well theyre just going to do it anyway so why not allow it? What happens when the age of consent is challenged? Its 18 now in most states but alot of people think it should be lower. Whos standard do we use? The majority? The majority once said blacks were less than human and baught and sold them like animals. Its all about whos standard is "right". No one wants to agree on a standard so everything goes? Nothing is wrong? That is the issue here. Whos satndard of right and wrong do we use? Neither side wants to give in so we argue and fuss and debate meanwhile the breakdown of the family and the undermining of parental athority keeps marching on

it's been like this since the beginning of the time and I think no one has the solution how everyone in this world can live in an enviorment where their morale values and views rule.
democracy seems to be the best way in the world... but it has some really bad sides.... only the majority get what they want (on one specific point) and the others are fucked.

I'll go through each with my opinion of them. Some are bad, some aren't. Rebels will be rebels, but we have a responsibility as parents to teach them right from wrong and hope that they make good decisions. I rebelled by listening to heavy metal and driving my car in stupid ways. Having sex is not (and should not be) an accepted form of rebellion, especially when the kid is in 6th grade.

Smoke pot - can lead to abuse of pot/other drugs, leading to throwing money, health, and friends down the drain. Consequences teach the lesson.

Drink beer - everyone I know who drank so much they puked and passed out swore off drinking the next day, and even though they started again, they usually don't drink as crazily as they did. Consequences teach the lesson.

Party - I'm not sure what this means, since it's typically associated with getting drunk, so see above

Masturbate - this is a natural thing, and while I wouldn't encourage it, I'm not going to get mad if my child is doing it. Plus it's a great way to get out any built up puberty-driven sex drives. There are no long term consequences.

Watch porn - see masturbate

wear heavy metal shirts - this is just retarded. Only the most strict, stuck-up parents have a problem with this, as long as the shirts are decent (e.g. no nudity, profanity, etc.), you are wearing these in public. There are no long term consequences.

Having sex at 11 - leads to warped view of how relationships work, teen pregnancy, STDs, pretty much ruins any plans you had for your life. - extreme long term consequences.

Supplying birth control to teens is like supplying a free taxi ride home from the party, or free medical care when you overdose on some drug, or a get out of jail free card when you kill someone. It is exactly like saying "Hey this is okay to do, someone will be there to fix it when things get messed up."

The government exists to protect rights and freedoms, not to hold everyone's hand and dig them out of a bad spot. If I wanted that, I'd move to a more socialist country, such as Canada, the UK, or France.

you seem to make that 11 year olds having sex is the worst thing....
kids doing drugs etc. has lead to death in many cases.... that's a lot worse
also kid with a needle in his/her hand can land in jail, kid who is having sex doesn't

to prevent teen pregnacy and STDs you can't forbid sex, you have to make sure that they are aware of the risks and can protect themselves.
fucked up views how relationships work is very individual and aren't caused by the age when one lost his/her virginity.
I pretty fucking sure every parent has told their kids to not do drugs... yet here in California pretty much everyone I know is doing heavy drugs... no matter what age, gender or class.
You can't stop people from taking drugs... but you can make them be more cautious. I know a lot of pharmacies and clinics are giving out free cyringes for junkies... they all know they shoot smack... but is it better if they are doing it with dirty old/hiv infected needle?
you can't stop everyone from having sex but you can provide them condoms etc.